News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

RE: News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

The Palastinians are lead by an organisation that wants to wipe Israel off the map. They have never accepted Israel's right to exist. Why demonstrate against the people who are defending Israel???

RE: News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

ORIGINAL: Dunkirk
Why demonstrate against the people who are defending Israel???

Just for my own silly clarification,but when you say “defending Israel”… which set of ‘boundaries’ are you actually meaning?

RE: News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

Hi Dunkirk

As usual where conflict is concerned, people get really entrenched in their views - either pro one side or the other. But without knowing a lot about what's going on in Israel, it does seem tragic that a nation, a race, which has itself experienced horror, hatred and extreme violence directed against its people, should now be acting as badly or worse than the Nazis did in WW2. If only we could see things from both sides of the conflict; WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS. Where does this hatred come from?

Love
Sunanda x

RE: News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

Yes indeed, if only we could see things from both sides.......when you go to Israel certainly your whole perspective changes. I haven't written about it yet because I am still integrating the power of the love and deep desire for peace from both sides amongst the people. I travelled around the country enjoying the peace of villages and towns where muslims, jews, arab christians and in some places western christians too, all living happily and peacefully side by side. Yes, I felt the tension of the past and everyone wishing to be relaxed and not look over their shoulder. One has no idea what it is like to live in such a pressure pot unless one has walked in their shoes.

The Palestinian militants do wish everyone to leave that is true; even the peaceful, loving Druze who are arab are demanded to leave. There are indeed two differfent sides to the story. However, no matter where I went there is a great call from the heart for peace. One Israeli said to me 'the biggest mistake our government made in the beginning was to teach the children English as a second language, it should have been Arabic, we live in the middle east not the west.' This made a lot of sense to me.

As I have sat here in my comfortable chair these last couple of weeks my heart has not left those that were being bombed from the north and invaded from the south just days after I left Israel. Nor have I forgotten the plea for help from the Palestinian woman who wishes to help her people to change and live stress free.

I witnessed wonderful signs while in this land, I met Jewish and Arab artists travelling the country and showing their work together, an initiative that was started by a man that built a Kibbtuz at Nof Ginosar. A midwife that told me about the arab and jewish actors.actresses and musicians working in schools together writing plays together with the children so they learn about the different aspects of the different cultures. My heart has been deeply moved by the sheer power of the people there who seek unity, oneness and love. One Israeli said to me 'Kim, we are not used to receiving so much love'. The light workers are doing their best, unlike us they gather every few weeks to work together, the religious leaders are working together, many are doing their best to create a safe and loving environment for all the children of the land. To create a new future that is good for everyone, sadly, as Gush Shalom point out politicians do get in the way......

I met a head of security forces at the airport, young men and women in the army that see it as their responsibility to ensure that nobody gets killed and to protect all people from harm, arabs and jews working side by side, hand in hand for the good of all, in the same army!

A taxi driver that shared the good news that all the lands taken in the Yom Kipur war are in the process of being given back to the Arabs with billions of financial help. They are in this process and hope that it will be completed within another 18 months. Sadly, I learnt that we only hear the worst in the press and not all the good work that is also going on.

Sadly, Palestine is now led by a fanatical leader who wishes arabs to leave Israel too, so in some respect one can understand why the Israeli leader is taking a hard stand.

They all need our love, healing and light to assist the process of coming home to true peace, love, grace and harmony.

Divine Love

RE: News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

Another perspective just arrived from the Universal Alliance News Agency.

To All Peace Workers,

Yesterday, Sunday, the 2nd of July we visited the premiere of the film, “We Refuse to be Enemies“ An impressive documentation of our pilgrimage, mainly through the West Bank. This film gives people the possibility to become a witness of the incredible realty of the wall and the daily war in this land. It also clearly shows that GRACE doesn’t seek for the culprit on the usual level. It touches by its humaneness and despite the extremely harsh reality we have to face through this film, it manages to lay a trace of hope. A thanks to Angelika Reicherter; certainly it was not an easy task to be travelling as a pilgrim herself, and, at the same time, to continually keep the sober look, having the task, to capture a clear and truthful picture, from a distance, for the future spectators.

The main focus of this film lies on our visit to the West Bank. While we watch the film and allow ourselves to be touched by Fayez, our guide through the West Bank, due to his deeply touching humaneness, he is lying in a hospital, having had a heart attack, and cannot visit us at peace conference in the Lassalle Institute, which starts today. “How important his voice would be, here!“ We send him light, solidarity and the best wishes for his healing.

When we see the reality of the wall the temptation to blame the Israelis, particularly the settlers, arises. We visited the “other side”, too, though. And this visit made it very clear to us that there are people living on the other side, searching for peaceful solutions, as well, and not enemies, culprits or perpetrators. No blaming of others, no being judgmental, only the unconditional search for realistic solutions is the task of peace work.

This week, I am sending out an extract from the book “Grace”, that I am currently working on, together with a poem and a text from a settler, whom we met when we visited the settlement Alon Shrut.

Yesterday, a peace conference started in the Lassalle - Institut in Bad Schönbrunn Switzerland. A warm welcome and many known faces. One may be curious and hopeful. We are here to strengthen the vision and the power of manifestation for peace in Israel – Palestine, particularly in Jerusalem. May this conference bring about new results for the network of peace.

Power Text:

A small groups rides with us to the close by settlement Alon Shrut. Even though we came with the feeling to be on the so-called ”free side” after having left the West Bank we find the settlement surrounded by high security fences and a control station. People who enter as well as people who leave are checked thoroughly. Every visitor who enters could be a potential terrorist. The settlements are located in the occupied Palestinian area and of course resistance against the occupants is deemed possible. (…)

What follows now is a very particular and very touching story. Besides some distortions and disturbances I see the pure Jewish soul in front of my inner eyes, the Sheshina, who is searching for the House of God which is habitable for her. It seems as if our hosts were surrounded by a certain aura; a trace of melancholia, of poesy and longing surrounds them. They live in the holy land, as if they were the direct descendents of Abraham, in absolute expectancy. We touch, at first certainly only the surface of – the heart of a community, who has its own history, its own believe, its own pain and, since generations, the moving search for God. This is the land which, from the point of view of its inhabitants, was promised to them by God and to which they remained faithful for centuries beyond all persecution and disillusionment. Persecuted, disesteemed and mistreated by the world. Those who were for a long time scattered in Diaspora where now, after centuries of dispersion called back into “their” country, promised to them by God. By no means do all settlers come to the country for religious motives. But yet we meet the archetypical aspect of the religious se

RE: News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

Politics put aside while they play football....

'Naftali is part of a combined Israeli-Palestinian entry in Streetfootballworld Festival 06, a weeklong five-a-side competition that kicked off Sunday with the blessing and support of FIFA.

"We are together all day. We go shopping, play soccer, talk -- but not politics with us," explained Naftali, whose favorite player is Argentina playmaker Juan Roman Riquelme. "We play together, we sleep together. We're friends."

Twenty-two teams are competing for the Copa Andres Escobar, a trophy named after the Colombian international who was shot to death following his own-goal at the 1994 World Cup.

Manager Anwar Zaidan, a Palestinian, says his team is a winner no matter what happens at the competition.

"The main goal ... is to show the whole world and ourselves that we could live together and respect each other," he said. "It's the best prize in all the whole world."

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Diplomacy/8798.htm

As one enlightened light worker in Tel Aviv said 'Israel has an ancient history but it is a very young nation, it is still growing up'.

Divine Love

RE: News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

Conspiritualist,
Israel's borders have changed many times since the state was set up in 1948.The Peel commission in 1936 tried to negotiate with the Arabs on establishing a homeland for the Jews. The Arab Grand Mufti refused to negotiate and the position of the Arabs which was one of outright rejection was outlined by the former Mayor of Jerusalem. David Ben Gurion was willing to accept the establishment of a Jewish homeland that was far smaller than that set up in 1948.
When the establishment of the state of Israel was declared in '48 the Arab nations attacked it. Israel was victorious and drove many Arabs from their land so that it couldn't be used to launch attacks on Israel.
Israel captured the Sinai in the war against Egypt in 1956.The war in 1967 resulted in Israel confiscating more land from Arab insurgents, the West Bank or Judea and Samaria and the Golan Heights. The Yom Kippurwar in '73 after initial losses for Israel resulted in Israel consolidating its hold on the occupied territories. The common factor is that Israel has reacted to aggression by the occupationof Arab held territoryin order to pacify the insurgent population and ensure that these areas can no longer be used to attack Israel
In 1979 the peace accords between Israel and Egypt saw the Sinai being handed back to Egypt. This was the first of the 'land for peace deals' and proved to be a successful policy when applied in a situation where both parties genuinely desired peace.
The recent withdrawal from Gaza should be taken as an opportunity for peace by the Palestinians. Instead they fire rockets and mortars into Israel in order to kill Israeli citizens. The present leadership of the Palestinians do not seem interested in peace or the setting up of a Palestinian state which could peacefully coexist with Israel. Hamas seems only interested inIsrael's destruction.
Sunanda,
how is Israel acting like Nazis? Arab people living in Israel are represented in the Knesset. There are a number of ethnic groups who live quite happily in Israel. The aggression from the Palestinians include suicide bombers who get on a bus and blow themselves and everyone else up.
Divine Love
if everyone was as kind and as nice as you I'm sure there would be no problems in the Middle East or anywhere else for that matter. The problem is that, sadly that is not the case.

RE: News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

Bless you Dunkirk for your valuable contribution to the history of the state.

I remain ever hopeful and positive that humanity will indeed become humans being kind to one another in every culture.

Divine Love

RE: News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

Well you certainly know your s Dunkirk, however, why was The Peel Commission trying to establish a “homeland” for the Jews in the first place… what’s it got to do with anybody apart from the peoples already established in the land?
Could it be the fact that in 1919 the British issued a mandate (or ‘sumink’) that said that they positively encouraged Jews to move there?
At which the local population were rightfully outraged! – Just as you or I would be…?
So (if I've got this right, coz I aint too bright) an external occupying force that has no intention to remain there is going to dictate that another “race” can just move in… yep that’s right, come on fellas move right on in!

Yeah!, That oughtta do it! I think that’d just about p em off & lo, they just kept on moving in and moving in.
Oh! & they never did anything naughty, illegal or underhand…did they? They in fact have been model homemakers.

Now I don’t wanna get too much into it, but I think everybody can work out – that it’s certainly a recipe for disaster – it ain’t rocket science is it.
Tell ya what, lets ensure the US pump arms & money into Israel too, yeah lets ensure they’re armed to the teeth with the latest hi-tech weaponry & make it so that every single Israeli head represents at least $20,000 of real cost to the US tax payers… Hmmm! Sounds like an equal footing to me.

Anyway, that's all done now and can't changed...
But I'll tell you what bothers me, I’ll tell you what I really want to know...

Why is it that when Palestine in some way attack – it’s called ‘terrorism’, ‘criminal’ and ‘unprovoked’… but when Israel attack a whole bunch of targets (that also kill innocent women and children) with their ‘high tech’ weaponry, just of the blue– it’s called ‘pre-emptive’… what’s the diff?

Oh!, Here's another one that really bothers me...
What would you think is the very basic, basic necessity that any human needs to survive? You know, not like job, or roof, or fire or food… I mean basic.. coz I reckon it’s water… surely we agree on that yeah?
So given your knowledge on the subject… what is that you think is right or proper about the fact Israel effectively controls nearly all of the Palestinian’s water?

See, I'm just an ordinary bloke and I hear & see all the stuff I'm presented complete with it's dramatic 'news reel muzac'...about terrorists, suicide bombers & generally how awful the Palestinian's are... but sumink don't add up see... sumink just don't look right or fair or decent about the whole picutre that I'm being 'sold' (like I'm only ever hearing one side of the story)... but then, perhaps you'll be the one to put me straight eh?

RE: News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

Well you certainly know your s*** Dunkirk, Thanks Conspiritualist, no point discussing something you neither know nor care about…however, why was The Peel Commission trying to establish a “homeland” for the Jews in the first place… what’s it got to do with anybody apart from the peoples already established in the land? The Arabs and the Jews?
Could it be the fact that in 1919 the British issued a mandate (or ‘sumink’) that said that they positively encouraged Jews to move there?
Let us agree that the Jews have a historical, biblical and spiritual connection with the land we now know as Israel. They were, in fact expelled from the region by the Romans during the 1st century for staging a rebellion against Roman rule. The land then became known by its Roman name of Palestine. The Jews of the Diaspora retained their affinity with the region and the Zionist movement was formed and grew in strength.
Prior to the British Mandate, which by the way was issued by the League of Nations not the British, Palestine was occupied by the Ottoman Empire, it had been since 1516. The Arab people of the region had become far from happy with their Ottoman rulers and took advantage of the ongoing WW1 and rebelled against them. The Ottomans reacted by cutting off food supplies, so the Arabs turned to the British who encouraged and re-supplied the Arab rebellion. The British occupied Palestine and Syria and restored food and medical supplies from Egypt.
The British had earned the right to negotiate with the Arab representatives in Palestine because they had formed an alliance with them and defeated the Ottoman Turks…OK so the British weren’t being altruistic about it, they were at war with the Turks and wanted to gain an advantage, but then again the Arabs were taking advantage of the situation too. History is full of one set of people making alliances with a powerful force to achieve their own ends. The Balfour declaration to form a homeland for the Jews in Palestine was taken up by the League of Nations and the British had the responsibility to see it through..
At which the local population were rightfully outraged! – Just as you or I would be…?
So (if I've got this right, coz I aint too bright please…spare us the modesty Conspiritualist) an external occupying force that liberated them from a previous occupying force that has no intention to remain there( damned if you do, damned if you don’t ) is going to dictate that another “race” can just move in… yep that’s right, come on fellas move right on in! The countries we now know as Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia Jordan and Palestine did not exist as countries during the time of the Ottoman Empire. They didn’t have defined borders, their own independent governments, their own currencies. The inhabitants of the region were mainly Arab subjects of the Ottoman Empire and lived in loose tribal communities. The Jews already made up 11% of the total population of Palestine as a whole, which at the time included the country we now know as Jordan. The Jews at this time numbered around 85,000. they had developed agriculture and industry in their heartland and this started attracting Arab workers who worked along side Jews. The British Mandate, when it dealt with the local population had to deal with a sizeable, well organised and comparatively sophistic

RE: News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

Hi Dunkirk,
Yes, you’re right that I meant that I agree that a solution can only be reached from the point that the situation is at now, moreover its worth making plain that I’m certainly not Anti-Semitic and often get drawn into heated discussions about it with my Jewish and Arabic friends… it is a very sorry situation, and one which most of us rightly pray is subject to a solution that is the bringer of peace and productivity.

I'm sorry, I don't know if I'm a 'leftie' as Idon’t know‘left or Right’ politics, I make my distinctionson what I consider to be 'fair' at a basic level, as anything else can be tied up in fancy words, labels, interpretation and perceptions.

However, I do disagree with many, many of your points, some that paint the same event or scenario rather differently to how I know them to be or understand them to have occurred & could take issue with them – from thesomewhat tenuous Jewish connection to the land, the Arab revolt, The broken agreement between the Arabs and the British which many senior men even Lawrence of Arabia felt was underhanded dealing by the British and badly short changed the Arabs, the disingenuous shifting of responsibility to the UN, the creative,underhanded & exploitative way land was acquired, the killing of civilians deemed "lawful" just by using the label ‘pre-emptive’, the non mention of the original terrorists in the region like the Jewish ‘Stern Gang’ blowing up buildings & bombing British officers, as well as kidnapping, torturing and then murdering them, the fanciful implication that Israel generally looks to extend a hand of peace and reconciliation - as even Clinton attested that Israel had no intention of coming to a decent agreement even at the Camp David II talks… But frankly I don’t think it would serve any real purpose to the discussion.

However I do see the water issue as a clear & demonstrative example of whether human life is indeed to be respected & that ultimately peace is genuinely desired by Israel.

ORIGINAL: Dunkirk
The Israelis are so evil in their intentions towards the Palestinians that they are proposing to build a desalination plant at Caesarea on the Mediterranean coast to help supply the Palestinian territories. (New Scientist) This would be in addition to Palestine having access to the Western aquifer, the region's most reliable source of fresh water. How can the Palestinians deal with such people when they use such provocative terms as 'joint management of shared resources' in their negotiations?

So, just focussing on that one issue, as I understand it Israel still gets four fifths (80%) of the West bank’s water even today... Quite irrespective of the fact that the water itself is largely from Palestinian territory… right?

The intended plant you mention (also I understand it) is to provide further drinking water to Palestinians, so that it can aid Israel in denying any further concessions for fresh water to the Palestinians & in return for Israel continuing to take the lions share (and then some) of the fresh water – & this is to continue to include the Western aquifer (contrary to what you say)… Moreover, they would like the US to fund it… so it’s not really the picture you have of the situation – but you may have more up-to-date details since I researched it last and I’d be happy to change my opinion!

So working on that as the current scenario, it then becomes incontrovertibly true that greedy and shamefully inequitable distribution is the crux of the matter.
Can Palestine become a modern and decent society without

RE: News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

I felt really terrible yesterday and felt sure that something was going down on the planet, this morning I have received an email from Israel that war has broken out. I have checked cnn news and Israel has bombed an airport at Beirut and Lebanon is bombing the northern terrorities again.

Please send your positive intent to ALL in the middle east because what happens there will impact on the rest of the world.

Divine Love

RE: News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

Hi Dunkirk,
Yes, you're right that I meant that I agree that a solution can only be reached from the point that the situation is at now, moreover its worth making plain that I'm certainly not Anti-Semitic and often get drawn into heated discussions about it with my Jewish and Arabic friends… it is a very sorry situation, and one which most of us rightly pray is subject to a solution that is the bringer of peace and productivity.
I don't believe that being critical of Israel necessarily implies Anti-Semitism. I also don't believe that being critical of the Palestinian leadership is in any way anti Arab or anti Muslim.
I'm sorry, I don't know if I'm a 'leftie' as I don't know 'left or Right' politics, I make my distinctions on what I consider to be 'fair' at a basic level, as anything else can be tied up in fancy words, labels, interpretation and perceptions.
As I stated in my previous post I did once support the Palestinians as an oppressed people struggling against the imperialist sponsored aggressors of Israel. On many occasions I was challenged to look at the facts and not follow the line being spun by the Left. The history of the conflict does show the Israelis and the Palestinians in a different light to that which meets the eye on the TV news.
The Palestinian leadership have given their people no other option than to pursue the path of conflict with Israel. Any faction that favoured a more conciliatory approach has been ruthlessly dealt with as treasonable.
However, I do disagree with many, many of your points, some that paint the same event or scenario rather differently to how I know them to be or understand them to have occurred & could take issue with them – from the somewhat tenuous Jewish connection to the land, the Arab revolt, The broken agreement between the Arabs and the British which many senior men even Lawrence of Arabia felt was underhanded dealing by the British and badly short changed the Arabs, the disingenuous shifting of responsibility to the UN, the creative, underhanded & exploitative way land was acquired, the killing of civilians deemed "lawful" just by using the label 'pre-emptive', the non mention of the original terrorists in the region like the Jewish 'Stern Gang' blowing up buildings & bombing British officers, as well as kidnapping, torturing and then murdering them, the fanciful implication that Israel generally looks to extend a hand of peace and reconciliation - as even Clinton attested that Israel had no intention of coming to a decent agreement even at the Camp David II talks… But frankly I don't think it would serve any real purpose to the discussion.

However I do see the water issue as a clear & demonstrative example of whether human life is indeed to be respected & that ultimately peace is genuinely desired by Israel.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dunkirk
The Israelis are so evil in their intentions towards the Palestinians that they are proposing to build a desalination plant at Caesarea on the Mediterranean coast to help supply the Palestinian territories. (New Scientist) This would be in addition to Palestine having access to the Western aquifer, the region's most reliable source of fresh water. How can the Palestinians deal with such people when they use such provocative terms as 'joint management of shared resources' in their negotiations?
So, just focussing on that one issue, as I understand it Israel still gets four fifths (80%) of the West bank's water even today... Quite irrespective of the fact that

RE: News from Tel Aviv on the middle eastern crisis

In the Middle East, "oh what a tangled web they weave". For what it's worth, my PoV would be somewhat half-way between that of Conspiritualist and Dunkirk. Not that you guys at all disagree on everything. The details you go into are beyond my scope - the Ottoman Empire and how much water is perculating through rock and coming out where!

This is I suppose the most challenging place on Earth for trying to get "two sides" to make up and - not only cease hostilities, but be friends. Seeking a solution here is the most taxing and difficult thing in the world right now, geopolitically.

It might help if we all (if it is happening) refrain from trying to show that we know more than the 'other', and being happy to be illumined when new and real data is offered in all directions.

Will the problem ever be healed? IMO it's going to take a looooong time. So many on either side are intractable. But how many political problems from, say, 2,000 years ago still exist today? I hope it won't take that long, but in the end thing s are all healed. Of course what vastly complicates things is that we are not at all dealing with "two sides" here, but well over a hundred hues of religion, opinion, and politics. When some get together to shake hands, there are always others who step up the violence in protest against that!

I'm only writing on this thread as I'm presently dismayed at Israel's incredibly gross over-reaction to what began as one kidnapped soldier (or 'prisoner of war'). How does that justify bombing families and city blocks and airports? Even rationality surely tells us that it just leads to an increasing spiral of violence - and sure enough there are now more Israeli captives. Obviously!

I'm not on any side in this complex conflict. Again, there aren't just two sides anyway (even Israel has many competing parties).

Oh, BTW - Sunanda, we agree on so many things, but I think it was a bit ill-thought and most unhelpful to call Israel "worse than the Nazis". That's hardly so in any sense. Writ large, Israel has over most years been under incredible threat and was the weaker power. It got used to fighting back to defend itself. (It's hardly sent millions of Muslims into gas chambers, and used their skin to make soap, now has it?) I was surprised to read that... It helps to be more constructive?

Israel's big mistake is that whereas it was once under unceasing and incredible threat from all sides, the support those nations received from the old USSR has now gone. (The Middle East used to be a kind of mini-WW3 with America supporting Israel and the Soviets supporting the Arabs ... and at times it threatened to escalate globally.) As a youth I must admit I was astounded and amazed at the great courage but also tactical shrewdness of how in, say, the war of 1967, faced with vast armies from Egypt in the south-west, Jordan to the East, Syria in the north, and other forces, Israel fought four "wars" on four different borders - and won them all. I don't blame them for taking a bit more territory as a buffer zone for some years.

In being constructive, the kind of detail Roger and Mark are delving into is maybe interesting, but it's not this kind of detail that'll ever solve things in the slightest IMO.

It's going to take a looooong time IMO. I hope on HP none will think me naive if I say that I really do believe prayer will help?

I don't think movements toward a solution are ever going to be detailed political things hammered out tooth-and-nail. Where's the give-and-take in that? Movements, bit by bit, are coming, we hope, by demonstrations of good will. Israel's pulling out of Gaza was one such act. Why, oh, why, couldn't all Palestinians have put hatred aside and accepted that as a move in the right direction?

On the other side, completely out of the blue, with no forewarning or herald at all, many years ago, when Egypt and Israel were bitter enemies, the then-Egyptian leader, Anwar Sadat, as if truly touched by Go