The paper says that Dr Diana, who is also the author of the book Music Education and Muslims, had visited schools where half of pupils were withdrawn from music during Ramadan.
Earlier, 20 pupils were removed from rehearsals for a Christmas musical and a five-year-old girl has been permanently withdrawn from all classes, in a London primary school.
This is The Indian News version. It strikes me that it might be quite fortuitous for sales of Dr Diana's book for this story to break now. Muslim pupils being removed from rehearsals for a Christmas musical (so we're talking six months ago already) is really not surprising. When I went to school the Jewish pupils got to wait outside the assembly hall each morning until we'd finished singing hymns etc. Big deal? I think not.
Rosie, your posting this statement
I think the reason Muslims are highlighted quite a bit is because Islam is so backward and controversial, far more than any of the other religions. See below.
which has a link to a Daily Mail article about an Iranian woman condemned to death for adultery is about as relevant to this thread as my posting a link to an American prisoner being executed by lethal injection. We all know that Iran is in the hands of fundamentalists. People have died in the streets there protesting against the regime, for God's sake.
This whole anti-Muslim thing is IMO being orchestrated from 'somewhere', the right wing press are up and running with it and people are coming up with quotes like Rosie's above. 'Islam is so backward and controversial, far more than any of the other religions.' What twaddle.:(
Supersub's right: we always have to have a hate object. We've moved from 'darkies' to 'Pakis' to 'Muslims', not forgetting the frogs and wops along the way. We are an inherently racist nation (as many nations are) and I am ashamed.
I so agree with you Sunanda, especially about the having to have a hate object thing.
however I live in France and can add to this topic by adding my witnessing of islamic "lifestyle" outside the UK. I cant go into details, I dont have the time, but things arent going too well at the moment. Paris suburbs that have alwyas been poepled by north african poor and deprived communities have been seeing a rise, a wave almost considering the numbers of young people involved, in radical islam. boys who were drifting and belonging to gangs, rioting and spreqding violence in Paris ( I myself got assaulted by 14 years old boys 4 times back in the eighties, at random places in the tube or in Paris, because I was 2too white2 or shouldnt have been 2outside at such a later hour", they said) have got brainwashed and joined extreme muslim branches, whose leaders are preaching not very peaceful attitudes to the Western world.
as a result, their sisters are now wearing the burka, they werent just 10 years ago.
not only that but men going to court because they ve been found of having 4 "wives", and claiming benefits for their 11 children, and not leaving one euro for the mothers or childrenm using up the money themselves.
honestly, I cant be very neutral regarding this topic and I regret already having taken it off topic and I apologize if I ve upset anyone..
Paris suburbs that have alwyas been poepled by north african poor and deprived communities have been seeing a rise, a wave almost considering the numbers of young people involved, in radical islam. boys who were drifting and belonging to gangs, rioting and spreqding violence in Paris
Unfortunately we've seen similar things happen in some areas of the UK, particularly places like Oldham and Bradford with kids born here to Asian parents. My theory is that it's tension created by 1) poverty, 2) alienation, i.e even though you are born and brought up in a country, you aren't treated like an indigenous member of that country and 3) the after-effects of colonisation by European countries - there is still a great deal of bitterness towards the French from Algerians and they weren't even born when the war of independence happened, but somehow end up carrying the resentment that even their parents have let go of. Similar thing with kids over here of Pakistani and Bengali descent.
Radical Islam then gives them an identity and a kind of power, even though it is often misguided and has little to do with what Islam should be about. When you are poor and see so much injustice in the world, is it surprising that the disillusioned youth turn to such a thing?
As for the Burka, if I'm 100% honest I hate it. I hate it for the same reason I hate hoodies and a scarf covering the lower part of the face. But I know that stems from my own fear and I wouldn't want to take away the right for women to wear them if they really want to. In certain circumstances related to security, then women would have to show their face and I'm sure many are happy to do it for another woman.
not only that but men going to court because they ve been found of having 4 "wives", and claiming benefits for their 11 children, and not leaving one euro for the mothers or childrenm using up the money themselves.
As for this, it sounds like the French press are doing a similar thing to the British press, stirring up Islamophobia. This is probably a tiny minority of people, yet the press would have us believe it's a true representation of Muslim people today. We have plenty of benefit cheats over here and I suspect most of them are non-Muslim, but if there were a small handful of Muslims doing it, you can guarantee the papers would print a story about it.
There are good and bad Muslims, there are good and bad Christians, we just have to find a way to live in peace and harmony with each other.
Just to add, my brother-in-law who's Algerian lives in and runs a brasserie in Paris as a peaceful and law-abiding citizen, but the 'normal' people like him you just won't hear much about. I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences, but they're not all like that.
Tiger.
Just to add, fadette, I hope these attacks weren't serious. I can totally understand why you'd feel angry.
I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences, but they're not all like that.
Tiger.
Yes, they're not all like that, but lots of them are. From your previous postings it would seem you are in denial to a certain degree.
Every day now there is something negative about Muslims in the papers, you cannot tell me every single story is propaganda?
Islam is incompatible with the Western world, as I write this I am listening to LBC radio and the MP Vince Cable has just confirmed this.
no worry Tigerlilly!
I understand your point of view and I re read my post and can see how it sounded like I was trying to stir anti islamic feelings.
I have met and made friends with Algerian people actually, but I must say none were deeply into religion. One man, a very nice, intelligent and cultured person, is actually worried because his daughter is taking religion a bit too seriously for his liking...
I know what you are saying about the press trying the demonise the islamic community, I hate it whenever it happens about any kind of event or community.
however my personal opinion and feelings have more to do with certain patricarchal values-led cultures than with religions, like islam.
I also can see like any other adult how religion is often a book legitimizing certains things that I profundly disagree with, from the deep in my heart. wether it is hindi, islamic, catholic or taoist, I cannot stand the conditioning that is often called religion that makes people turn a blind eye to Women and Children's right to dignity and saftey.
in that respect, I have found, through my personal encounters with some young men belonging to these patriarchal cultures, that I could not be free as my century and country would lead us to believe. just walking in the very centre of Paris, the poshest area or more ordinary places meant that friends and I were assaulted (them more viciously than I was. reasons: being women with no male "company" walking after dark, ie: 9 pm, they said we were looking for rape as punishment, and we were wearing trousers and sports wear, no sexy gear. another time my male friends didnt look "virile enough" because they had long hair and as a result got spat on and kicked).
I left France FOR THAT REASON, of unsafety and my growing rage.
I came back 15 years later after a life in the UK (and never ever having been assaulted for being a woman walking in the street with no man, never ever was spat on or insulted because I was having white skin or just a certain look) and guess what, my family (35 years old cousins, plus their mum) have also been victims of the same hatred by - sorry to have to say it for what it is- by young arabs again. this time, while coming home from work, my (dull looking) cousin was attacked and stayed 3 days in hospital after. as for my aunt, 55, but she would never admit her feelings because it is tabboo, but she cant stand going in the streets on her own again! after chatting to my neighbours, they said I was mad to walk my dog after 8.30. and I live in a ordinary residential area, not a place you'd ever hear about for its violence. where I live is like...Archway or Liverpool Street in London.neighbours, family, friends all fear the same group of people, Im not talking here of worldwide common urban crime.
And in suburbs, home to the biggest North African/arab communities, young women are simply and systematically raped for daring to wear (ankle long) skirts. yound radical islamic arabs say: skirt=whore.
Im sorry for reporting dreadful news and I wish it wasnt this way.
so a long post, and I hope I havent sounded like a hysterical intolerant person. in short, it isnt the religion, in fact I love when people have a faith, as I find spirituality lacking in our times. It is the oppressiveness inherent to some macho cultures and one just has to travel east or south overseas to witness how women are left to rear numerous children, do most of the work while trying to conceal their so called sexually arousing limbs or hair. I hope Im not all mad yet, but i dont get it why our Great Religions ( and I put all known religions in the same bag, might as well generalize since Ive probably upset dozens of HP readers!) have all been written and carried out by men for men (in europe, women werent allowed into schools til the mid 19th century), preaching they're the holy race chosen by God. Actually even Shintoism, a religion I feel affinity with, has this: Japan is the Chosen Land of the Gods!
Hi Fadette
I think your post is very balanced and non-hysterical and I appreciate how horrible it must be to be scared to go out in France. The difference between your posts and those of some of the other people who have written here is that you are a) writing from personal experience and b) you are not saying that all Muslims are bad. It seems to me that the problems caused by young Arabs in France are similar to those caused by young men of other ethnic backgrounds in UK. (Depends which area which ethnic group holds sway.) I think you are right, in the case of France, to lay the blame at the feet of patriarchal misogynist cultures. Which doesn't automatically mean Muslim.
xxx
thanks Sunanda, I felt while clicking on "send" that I should have deleted my entire post, doubting even my judgement and experience. I really wish things werent what they are like now in France, all this fear, bitterness, feeling of unfairness and anger at times is consuming and Id rather walk the Earth savouring each second the miracle of Life (I went to Newgrange today, Ireland and Im still recovering form the spiritual high!).
well this thread was about muslim people's attitude to music ( if there is definetly such a thing or whether it has been blown out of proportions by the media) and once again, Ive plastered a huge post, all about myself, taking it off topic and I apologize.
About music, I think once, before all our main religions came about (2500-2000 before present) Music was the path to the spirit world. it takes us directly into another dimesnion, doesn't it, unlike other arts such as painting or cooking. it is direct, it trenscends the present and here, and it awakens the emotional, physical and spiritual self...at the risk of sounding like a sad hippie. who hasnt had goose pimple on their skin listening to a song or during a gig? I personally have felt like in a trance, violently possessed by something akin to Love while in a concert recently. In some ways, it is not surprising if some people,religious or not, want to control the power of music.
I agree with Sunanda, Fadette, you haven't said a single thing out of line, you've spoken from your heart about your own experiences.
That's exactly how this sort of debate should be conducted, I think.
I have my own discomforts with the main religions - or rather, how they are interpreted by some of their followers. A few nutters give everyone else a bad name.
About music, I think once, before all our main religions came about (2500-2000 before present) Music was the path to the spirit world. it takes us directly into another dimesnion, doesn't it, unlike other arts such as painting or cooking. it is direct, it trenscends the present and here, and it awakens the emotional, physical and spiritual self...at the risk of sounding like a sad hippie. who hasnt had goose pimple on their skin listening to a song or during a gig? I personally have felt like in a trance, violently possessed by something akin to Love while in a concert recently. In some ways, it is not surprising if some people,religious or not, want to control the power of music.
Ain't that the truth sister:)
This is my church
This is where I heal my hurts
This is my church
This is where I heal my hurts
This is my church
This is where I heal my hurts
It's a natural grace
Of watching young life shape
It's in minor keys
Solutions and remedies
Enemies becoming friends
When bitterness ends
This is my church
This is where I heal my hurts
For tonight
"GOD IS A DJ."
This is my church
This is where I heal my hurts
This is my church
This is where I heal my hurt
It's in the world I become
Content in the hum
Between voice and drum
It's in change
The poetic justice of cause and effect
Respect, love, compassion
This is my church
This is where I heal my hurt
For tonight
"GOD IS A DJ"
This is my church
-"God is a DJ" ... Faithless
.
New here
Hi there,
New to this site and forum and don't usually write but taking children out of music classes??? When are we going to learn that children are children they are not muslim children or christian children they are just children pure and simple. My 1 year old jiggles when she hears some music she likes and my nearly 4 year stops what she is doing to so the same it is adorable. Very sad that the world is becoming more and more ignorant.
Very sad that the world is becoming more and more ignorant.
That's a very sweeping statement. I also think it's sad that the Plymouth Brethren make their women and girls wear long skirts and headscarves and that Orthodox Jewish women have to wear wigs when they go out and their girls can never leave the house with bare legs. It's a strange world and no mistake. God must be laughing His/Her head off.
I just can't worked up about muslims being taken out of music lessons. Yes, I think its a shame that there are people who aren't given the opportunity to enjoy something I consider to be so harmless and which can be greatly beneficial, but thats all.
I would be more bothered if they were denied the chance to do English lessons, for example. Not being allowed to learn to read and write would seriously set them back for later life. But not playing the recorder? Not so much of a problem to me.
Just to pre-empt the Islamophobes, I thought I'd post this.
I heard a paper review late last night on the radio and decided to look up the full story:
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/144429/MUSLIM-PUBLIC-LOO-FURY
It's probably just my sense of humour, but I was literally in tears of laughter after reading it! :rollaugh:
This is wrong on so many levels and for so many reasons! But it did give me a good laugh! Just to clarify where this article/the chap who decided to have the toilets installed went wrong is that there is NO SUCH THING as a 'muslim toilet'!! Also, it mentions 'Asians'... Well, not all Asians are Muslims and not all Muslims are Asian. And not so long ago, there were loos like these in rural parts of France and Italy.
So congratulations to the Rochdale shopping centre that has made such a barking mad and misguided decision!!! Yet another thing to divide communities.
If ignorance is on the increase, it's thanks to reports and decisions like this!
Very funny, though.
not so long ago, there were loos like these in rural parts of France and Italy.
Not so long ago, there were loos like those in central Paris, never mind rural France! In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there still were some. I always thought of them as European-style toilets, rather than Muslim toilets!