I am starting this post very tentatively as it's such an emotive issue, so I leave it to the judgement of the mods if they think HP is the wrong place for this topic and decide to delete it.
When I first heard that Jon Venables was back in custody, I had the knee-jerk reaction that most people had in that I really wanted to know what he'd done. I've actually changed my mind. I think the only people who have the absolute 'right' to know are Jamie Bulger's parents.
I've suddenly understood the real reason why they won't release details.
If Venables has committed another terrible crime - as hinted at by the papers who know what he's been accused of - surely the most important thing would be to ensure justice is done and he is sentenced and sent back to prison. If we all knew who he was and what he'd done in the past, his defence could argue an unfair trial and it could possibly collapse or result in an unsafe conviction, which would be a travesty if he was actually guilty.
The point is, British law currently requires that a jury shouldn't know about previous convictions - such as the case of Roy Whiting in the Sarah Payne trial. I know there has been some discussion on whether the jury should know about previous convictions but until this law changes, any details of past convictions could jeopardise the stability of the trial.
If he is convicted of commiting another serious offence, I think then would be the time to reveal to the public what he has done.
I don't know whether they should change the rules about revealing past convictions to the jury, perhaps it should be taken on a case-by-case basis. If someone stands accused of a crime they didn't commit, a past conviction would probably prejudice a jury and could result in a guilty person escaping conviction and nobody would want that... but in certain cases, I can see how it would be helpful to know.
Anyway, my thoughts are with Jamie's family who are suffering once again.
I watched this on the news last night, where my thoughts at the time were, yes, the public does have a right to know what the offence was and his anonymity should now cease.
Today though, I agree only Jamie's parents need know. The media are having a field day at the moment, and i assume there might be an official statment from Jack Straw purely to end the speculation.
I feel while his anonymity should now be waived, if it goes to court then the media should be banned from covering it and John to spend the rest of his life in a secure unit if found guilty.
John to spend the rest of his life in a secure unit if found guilty.
Whoo....a harsh punishment. We don't even know what he's supposed to have done. 'Secure units' for adults mean maximum security jails or institutions for the mentally ill like Broadmoor. I am probably in the vast majority of people who have serious issues with the labelling of Venables and Thompson as 'evil' and in need of locking up for the rest of their lives. They were ten years old when they killed Jamie Bulger. I said at the time we might just as well put them against a wall and shoot them; that at least would have satisfied the blood lust of those who condemn them out of hand.
Anyway, the title of this thread is 'should we know' and my reply to that is 'what for? What good will come of our knowing?'
You know, to go off topic for a minute, I can see so clearly how we as humans have progressed from watching the gladiators kill each other to bear baiting to dog fighting to tearing people to pieces in the media. This country particularly seems to revel in some kind of blood lust....
I don't think it's harsh at all Sunanda, the way i look at it is that he knew the terms of his licence and if he has done something ( at the moment, Jack Straw said it was a serious allegation, not a confirmation) then he made that choice.
No, I don't think we have a right to know and neither do I think that Jamie Bulgers parents have a right to know either. What has happened now has nothing to do with what the boys did 17 years ago and would serve JB's parents no earthly good other than to strengthen their knowledge that the two boys were what they were, ergo it serves no purpose as far as I can see.
Patchouli
I am so sick of hearing what crimes people have been accused of. If they are found guilty then maybe we have a right to know.
How many lives have been ruined by false accusations? The name of the accuser seems to be kept quiet but the name of the accused is released. Right now he is only accused....he may well be innocent. We don't know. We live in a world where the law says - innocent until PROVEN guilty.
I feel like Sunanda too.....we are so quick to call these children evil. Well if a child commits a crime like that I feel we are ALL at fault. A child is not born evil. They are abused or abandoned by their parents, society, teachers etc. and as the wonderful woman Camila Batmanghelidjh says - an abused child will one day seek revenge for all the pain they are feeling. It is their only means of understanding and coping with what has happened to them. They deserve our prayers as much as those who have been abused.
Only when we have walked a lifetime in the shoes of another can we judge them.
Love and light,
Christina
Thanks, Christina. I didn't think many people would agree with my point of view - and maybe they won't. But it also occurred to me (even though I don't consider myself a Christian as such) that one belief of Christianity is that God forgives us our sins. So if God forgives people, then who are we to say that anyone should never be forgiven....perhaps more so for a crime committed at the age of ten.
I think he/they should have been adequately punished in the first place, this new revelation doesn’t surprise me in the least.
Gosh, what a tricky one this is, but here goes, my opinion.
Are these two boys evil, what they did to James Bulger IS evil, in their actions yes, totally evil! but born evil, I really can't make that assumption, I don't know them, their upbringing or their families. Lots of children have tough lives, not all go on to murder and most know right from wrong.
Should we know their true identity? well, it seems the so called rehabilitation obviously hasn't worked for one of them if what is being reported on the news is true, and I suspect most of it is. Jack straw DID confirm that he had been sent back to prison for serious offences. Make of that what you will.
I also wonder that if this man was left to live his life in society, why doesn't anyone who is likely to have a future relationship with this man have a right to know who he is? what if they were to marry and go on to have children with him? so many scenarios to ponder, wouldn't YOU like to know that your husband or family in-law or friend was a murderer? I know I would. What they did wasn't an accident, we know that much of what happened to James Bulger is so heinous that most journalists can't even bare to report about it. Its pretty impossible to just wipe the slate clean here.
I do believe that the parents of little James Bulger should have a right to know the circumstances of him being detained, if they feel thats what they need to help them cope, they have to live everyday for the rest of their tormented lives with what has happened to their son and the fact that the boys who lured him away from his family that day have been given a second chance to live their lives, while all the time being protected from the society that they sickened so much with their torture and murder of such an innocent child. I don't think god comes into this personally, god is something we choose to believe in, what happened to this little boy is very much reality. I think walking a day in Jamie Bulgers mothers shoes would be more appropriate to know how it feels to have a child taken from you like that. I think that Jon venables has been given his chance, surely if he was sorry for his crimes then he would have grasped it both both hands by now?. He chose not too though. This isn't a case of guilty until proven innocent or a witch hunt, I just get the feeling by most peoples reactions that society has had enough of victims and their families having less rights than people who go about commiting crime on whatever level. This is a very thought provoking post isn't it!
we know that much of what happened to James Bulger is so heinous that most journalists can't even bare to report about it.
I'm not sure that this can be demonstrated to be true, clarice.
I don't think god comes into this personally, god is something we choose to believe in, what happened to this little boy is very much reality.
We obviously have different views here. To me God comes into everything. And God is only love.
I respect your beliefs about god Sunanda, that was just my opinion. Although it was and still is widely reported that alot of injuries inflicted on James Bulger not suprisingly couldn't be reported as they were too upsetting.
Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Like I said, this is a very thought provoking post.
By the way......... they did announce that he's back in custody on child pornography charges.
Whether anyone needed to know or not, the short sentence and new life these psychos received originally was like a sick joke compared to what they did.
We obviously have different views here. To me God comes into everything. And God is only love.
Hi Sunanda. It's not the first time I hear/read that and I never ever understand. I don't believe in God but it puzzles me that, according to believers, God could be love and in everything AND do this kind of things (or worse, tsunamis, earthquakes...). How does it work?
It's a serious question, I'm not having a go! Just trying to understand.
Hi,
Obviously I am not walking in James Bulger's mother's shoes and I do feel deeply for the family's loss, but I feel that does not give us the right to lay such harsh judgement on another. As has been pointed out - Jon is in prison on charges - not found guilty - but only charged.
Who here on this thread can say that he has absolutely not felt any regret for his crime? Who here can see into his heart? I can't.
It is well known that going into prison does rehabilitate. Maybe Jon has never been helped to see how his actions were wrong.
In my work as a healer I have learnt that there is no evil person, only wrong choices. Were I too judge then I wouldn't be able to heal. Everyone can be saved if given the chance. I don't see the boys as pyschos but as people who are suffering.
Love and light,
Christina
]It is well known that going into prison does rehabilitate.
Is this what you meant to say, Christina? Only I think it's well known that prison does NOT rehabilitate.
Originally Posted by sunanda [url]
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We obviously have different views here. To me God comes into everything. And God is only love.Hi Sunanda. It's not the first time I hear/read that and I never ever understand. I don't believe in God but it puzzles me that, according to believers, God could be love and in everything AND do this kind of things (or worse, tsunamis, earthquakes...). How does it work?
It's a serious question, I'm not having a go! Just trying to understand.
I don't think I could begin to answer your question, Claire. And if I did so it would have to be on another thread as it's certainly another topic. I realise that's something of a cop out but it would involve explaining my belief system which has largely been formed over the past 15 years during which I've spent a lot of time in India. It also might sound quite harsh as IMV there is no such thing as death and thus no real need to grieve when someone dies. In my view everything happens perfectly, even the bad stuff. But that can be very hard to get your head around.
xxx