Your telling me nothing that I don't know myself.
And, you haven't directly answered my question.
What I mentioned on the G.M thread from a particular perspective was that these G.M. food producers are misleading the general population .
On one level this is so . On another level the deceivers are also the deceived as mentioned in similar lines above .
And like I also said some individuals are living in a reality where they are trying and remove the wool from over another's eyes .. In the G.M. thread that is what I did .
In reference to the thread in question I did also, but on a different level .
There are many ways to skin a cat as they say ..
x daz x
What I mentioned on the G.M thread from a particular perspective was that these G.M. food producers are misleading the general population .
On one level this is so . On another level the deceivers are also the deceived as mentioned in similar lines above .And like I also said some individuals are living in a reality where they try and pull the wool from over another's eyes .. In the G.M. thread that is what I did .
In reference to the thread in question I did also, but on a different level .
There are many ways to skin a cat as they say ..
x daz x
If there are "no real victims" as you've said elsewhere ~ why are you a making it your business to remove the wool from anyones' eyes? I'm seeing nothing but your inner conflicts daz. Represented in your biases......
If there are "no real victims" as you've said elsewhere ~ why are you a making it your business to remove the wool from anyones' eyes?
It's part of my reality that's of the moment . Reality changes and one's perception changes in tandem/relation with it .
I do a tremendous amount of healing work on a daily basis and yet I know these individuals are creating their own sufferings .
It doesn't mean that I will always turn a blind eye to their sufferings because I know they have created them for themselves .
It's therefore a part of my reality to help victims even when there are (strictly) none . For some their reality will contain the feeling as if they are the victims .
I'm seeing nothing but your inner conflicts daz. Represented in your biases......
That's o.k for you to see what is part of your reality through your own present evaluations of daz ..
x daz x
That's o.k for you to see what is part of your reality through your own present evaluations of daz ..
....it's also OK for me to act in accordance with those evaluations.
Perhaps if we put aside what one regards as to being a right or wrong doing/action .. and entertain the notion that one creates their own reality ..
x daz x
Isn't this what Jimmy Savile did?
It's part of my reality that's of the moment . Reality changes and one's perception changes in tandem/relation with it .
I do a tremendous amount of healing work on a daily basis and yet I know these individuals are creating their own sufferings .
It doesn't mean that I will always turn a blind eye to their sufferings because I know they have created them for themselves .
It's therefore a part of my reality to help victims even when there are (strictly) none . For some their reality will contain the feeling as if they are the victims .
x daz x
Hi daz
In this discussion I fail to understand what you seem to be saying: that your perception is that the children who were abused by this odious creep brought it on themselves. How could they? They were conned into believing they were going to be given a treat of some sort and he molested them for his own seedy 'pleasure' - to my mind they were/are victims - he stole their innocence.
How can you say they were not victims? - they were children! - and in the 60's to the 80's they were far less savvy than they are today. They had no idea of what he would do to them and some weren't even compus mentis. To live with these memories and bear the weight of mistrust in adults can cause serious repercussions. The bullying I suffered as a child was enough to disrupt my thought processes (and I recognised and have dealt with that), but what he did to those children was far, far worse.
How can it be that "these individuals are creating their own sufferings" ? It is an awful thing for them to have to cope with.
Or am I missing some obscure point?
It's part of my reality that's of the moment . Reality changes and one's perception changes in tandem/relation with it .
I do a tremendous amount of healing work on a daily basis and yet I know these individuals are creating their own sufferings .
It doesn't mean that I will always turn a blind eye to their sufferings because I know they have created them for themselves .
It's therefore a part of my reality to help victims even when there are (strictly) none . For some their reality will contain the feeling as if they are the victims .That's o.k for you to see what is part of your reality through your own present evaluations of daz ..
x daz x
EDITING your post after I'd already responded, and without giving the precise reason... isn't doing you any favours, imv..
I responded at 03:47PM and you edited at 03:55PM
Hi daz
In this discussion I fail to understand what you seem to be saying: that your perception is that the children who were abused by this odious creep brought it on themselves. How could they? They were conned into believing they were going to be given a treat of some sort and he molested them for his own seedy 'pleasure' - to my mind they were/are victims - he stole their innocence.
How can you say they were not victims?
Or am I missing some obscure point?
I think what Daz is alluding to (and he may correct me if I'm wrong)... is that it's not a case of saying they are not victims... or that it was ok for JS to do what he did to them... of course they are victims, and of course it is wrong for anybody to hurt another person... but rather I think Daz is saying that the suffering they are feeling in this moment of time, right now, is coming from themselves... after all they cannot say that JS is here and now abusing them.
In a sense it's like someone who suffered at the hands of someone else in the past who is now suffering every day and they will continue their suffering until they're lying on their death bed when they look back at their life and say to themselves "why did I suffer so much?"... Out of the thousands of days people have to live their lives, they have a choice what to do each day... and given that choice in black and white... "today I will choose to suffer" or "today I choose not to suffer"... which one would you choose as a preference? And yes, obviously, even if you choose not to suffer, something may happen that day which causes suffering... but it doesn't have to be that thing from the past.... at least you would have chosen to make this day one where your aim in this moment is to not suffer.
In that sense, people do bring about their own suffering, in this present moment.
Sure, find the guilty parties, sure lock them up in jail, or castrate them or whatever... but is that going to take away what happened in the past? Will it really stop the suffering? No... only those individuals who choose to can stop their own suffering.
And why the big hype about it all now... just because it's JS? These things happen every day, probably in your own street... that Mr Bloggs down the road who's systematically beating his wife when he gets home from work... or Mr and Mrs Smith who abuse their children... why aren't the media and the public up in arms about them?.... simply because it's not "nationally newsworthy".
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Hi daz
In this discussion I fail to understand what you seem to be saying: that your perception is that the children who were abused by this odious creep brought it on themselves. How could they? They were conned into believing they were going to be given a treat of some sort and he molested them for his own seedy 'pleasure' - to my mind they were/are victims - he stole their innocence.
How can you say they were not victims? - they were children! - and in the 60's to the 80's they were far less savvy than they are today. They had no idea of what he would do to them and some weren't even compus mentis. To live with these memories and bear the weight of mistrust in adults can cause serious repercussions. The bullying I suffered as a child was enough to disrupt my thought processes (and I recognised and have dealt with that), but what he did to those children was far, far worse.
How can it be that "these individuals are creating their own sufferings" ? It is an awful thing for them to have to cope with.
Or am I missing some obscure point?
Hi caroline .
Not many I would say would choose to experience abuse by the hand of another and yet it happens day in and day out in our wordly environment . It's easy to call such abusers 'monsters' and such likes . The way the majority view and judge what is right and what is wrong is evident because we are conditioned into thinking and believing what is right and wrong through lifetimes of conditioning .
One perspective allows me to agree with such conditioning when we experience sufferings by the hands of another or we observe anothers sufferings by the hands of another .. One perspective in hindsight and in regards to my own sufferings and through realizations had where such sufferings brought forward an awakening brings with it that there is only what you are present .
What you are is what I am . We are all the same . Individual uniqueness does not separate what is known as you from me .
So how can there be something outside of this sameness that is to blame for our individual sufferings .
Now back into the reality where we are swayed by our senses one can ascertain that Mr Hitler is to blame for millions of deaths .
That is true from that perspective only . From another perspective one entertains going to war prior to his earthly carnation .
If one is not aware of that then one can entertain a multitude of energies that express separation .
Remembering what one has created for themselves to experience is rare until one has weakened or dissolved one's fixated mind set in that what they are is daz and what you are is caroline .
Nothing happens by chance .. We are creating not only every moment in this carnation but we are planting seeds for our next .
There is so much more to it but I hope this gives you a little insight to the fact that everything is not what it seems/appears to be, especially if one's perception is of the ordinary mind where we ascertain everything via our intellectual mind .
x dazzle x
EDITING your post after I'd already responded, and without giving the precise reason... isn't doing you any favours, imv..
I responded at 03:47PM and you edited at 03:55PM
I added
It's therefore a part of my reality to help victims even when there are (strictly) none . For some their reality will contain the feeling as if they are the victims .
because I felt I didn't address the victim aspect as much as I perhaps should of . That's all .
x dazzle x
Isn't this what Jimmy Savile did?
Do you mean J.S. created his own reality? If so yes .
x daz x
Sure, find the guilty parties, sure lock them up in jail, or castrate them or whatever... but is that going to take away what happened in the past?
Will it really stop the suffering? No... only those individuals who choose to can stop their own suffering.
I'd say, to an extent, that it would alleviate the suffering of what happened in the past - it's generally refereed to as justice or retribution. And halts the perpetrator in their path (where possible.) And it's how those victims have chosen to alleviate that suffering....
daz himself as said that:
Hi Giles .
What I generally feel regarding such matters is that up until a point one has to suffer and one has to take responsibility for one's actions .
If all that happens with such an individual is a lovingly stroke upon their foreheads and a warm cuddle to follow 😀 then one perhaps would not taste their own medicine . What one sows one reaps .
I think what Daz is alluding to (and he may correct me if I'm wrong)... is that it's not a case of saying they are not victims... or that it was ok for JS to do what he did to them... of course they are victims, and of course it is wrong for anybody to hurt another person... but rather I think Daz is saying that the suffering they are feeling in this moment of time, right now, is coming from themselves... after all they cannot say that JS is here and now abusing them.
Hi Giles .
For one that feels like a victim there reality will reflect that . Two individuals can be robbed of wealth and one could feel victimised and traumatised whereas the other could put it down to just one of those things and not take any of it personally . The same experience happened to both and yet one feels victimised and the other does not . In both instances there is truth in how they have evaluated such experiences because they are going by how they feel in the moment by the sway of their senses . In another moment if they evaluate their same experience had in a different light or from another vantage point the victim no longer is . So where has the victim gone?
When I endured my sufferings there was a long period where I felt like the victim because I was not aware of my creational involvement . From a understanding/realization of oneness the evaluation of one being a victim by the hands of another dissolves . In fact it is possible to love that other that played a role in ones sufferings . On one level all is love . Its possible to be aware of the love within ones sufferings although in the midst of the sufferings for much of the time the blinkers are on and what ones endures doesnt feel like love at all .
x dazzle x
Do you mean J.S. created his own reality? If so yes .
x daz x
In the context of the discussion, I felt that 'creating your own reality' without being more specific could be seen to be not necessarily a good thing - abusers create quite a powerful reality that suits them very well but is very damaging to others.
Not many I would say would choose to experience abuse by the hand of another and yet it happens day in and day out in our wordly environment .
I thought you said everyone creates their own reality?!
It's easy to call such abusers 'monsters' and such likes . The way the majority view and judge what is right and what is wrong is evident because we are conditioned into thinking and believing what is right and wrong through lifetimes of conditioning .
One perspective allows me to agree with such conditioning when we experience sufferings by the hands of another or we observe anothers sufferings by the hands of another .. One perspective in hindsight and in regards to my own sufferings and through realizations had where such sufferings brought forward an awakening brings with it that there is only what you are present .
On the level of Perpatrator | Victim they are monsters!
What you are is what I am . We are all the same . Individual uniqueness does not separate what is known as you from me .
So how can there be something outside of this sameness that is to blame for our individual sufferings .
Now back into the reality where we are swayed by our senses one can ascertain that Mr Hitler is to blame for millions of deaths .
That is true from that perspective only . From another perspective one entertains going to war prior to his earthly carnation .If one is not aware of that then one can entertain a multitude of energies that express separation .
Remembering what one has created for themselves to experience is rare until one has weakened or dissolved one's fixated mind set in that what they are is daz and what you are is caroline .
Nothing happens by chance .. We are creating not only every moment in this carnation but we are planting seeds for our next .
There is so much more to it but I hope this gives you a little insight to the fact that everything is not what it seems/appears to be, especially if one's perception is of the ordinary mind where we ascertain everything via our intellectual mind .
I fail to see how any of this is relevant....