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Revision of the Hadiths in Turkey


Principled
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This morning there was an interesting item on BBC Radio 4’s news. It reported that in Turkey the are being revised to reclaim the original pure Islam as given by the Prophet Mohammad rather than all the later politically-motivated additions. All harsh and misogynistic entries will be removed. As the The Hadiths are the source of 90% of Sharia law the outcome could be quite interesting.

I did a Google search and found that this had been reported in the Washington Post (though the emphasis was on the treatment of women) back in July 2006. Why is the BBC reporting it now? One report I read said that the revision would be completed by 2008 so perhaps that’s why.

Anyway, to me this could herald an Islamic Renaissance which would be what the many Muslims long for.

[url]Washington Post July 16 2006[/url]
Since the 19th century, traditional Muslims have felt forced to choose between their faith and modernity -- a dilemma that has been fueling a reactionary strain of radical Islam. The Islamic world needs an alternative -- a path between godless modernity and anti-modern bigotry. With its revision of the traditional Islamic sources and with its rising Muslimhood that embraces democracy and open society, Turkey may just be opening the way. The West should be taking notice -- and encouraging other Muslim countries to take inspiration from Turkey's moderate course.

Here is another link I found today which is interesting:

Saturday, January 12, 2008
Photo archive of ancient manuscripts of the Quran

The Lost Archive --- Missing for a half century, a cache of photos spurs sensitive research on Islam's holy text
By Andrew Higgins
12 January 2008
The Wall Street Journal

Love and peace,

Judy

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chankya01
Posts: 49
(@chankya01)
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Joined: 14 years ago

This morning there was an interesting item on BBC Radio 4’s news. It reported that in Turkey the are being revised to reclaim the original pure Islam as given by the Prophet Mohammad rather than all the later politically-motivated additions. All harsh and misogynistic entries will be removed. As the The Hadiths are the source of 90% of Sharia law the outcome could be quite interesting.

I did a Google search and found that this had been reported in the Washington Post (though the emphasis was on the treatment of women) back in July 2006. Why is the BBC reporting it now? One report I read said that the revision would be completed by 2008 so perhaps that’s why.

Anyway, to me this could herald an Islamic Renaissance which would be what the many Muslims long for.

[url]Washington Post July 16 2006[/url]
Since the 19th century, traditional Muslims have felt forced to choose between their faith and modernity -- a dilemma that has been fueling a reactionary strain of radical Islam. The Islamic world needs an alternative -- a path between godless modernity and anti-modern bigotry. With its revision of the traditional Islamic sources and with its rising Muslimhood that embraces democracy and open society, Turkey may just be opening the way. The West should be taking notice -- and encouraging other Muslim countries to take inspiration from Turkey's moderate course.

Here is another link I found today which is interesting:

Saturday, January 12, 2008
Photo archive of ancient manuscripts of the Quran

The Lost Archive --- Missing for a half century, a cache of photos spurs sensitive research on Islam's holy text
By Andrew Higgins
12 January 2008
The Wall Street Journal

Love and peace,

Judy

Very interesting post P. and surprised that no one has commented on this.

The Hadiths are not considered religious doctrines by most Muslims and are not a problem. The problem is the Koran itself. Abrogation of it is strictly prohibited in Islam and punishable by death. The harsh entries in the Koran cannot and will not be omitted and therefore whether the hadiths are revised is irrelevant.

Any non-believer is a kuffar or infidel according to the Koran and should they not accept Islam then they are to be beheaded.

Here are over one hundred quotes from the Koran vilifying non-Muslims. Let me know if you need any more to be convinced that Islam is wholly intolerant to other faiths.

For the moderators the source of each stanza is quoted from the original Koran.
[LIST=1]

  • Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom.
  • Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.
  • Allah has blinded the disbelievers.
  • A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones.
  • Disbelievers will be burned with fire.
  • Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations.
  • Only those Jews and Christians who convert to Islam will be rewarded with heaven.
  • Allah turned the Sabbath-breaking Jews into apes.
  • If you believe in only part of the Scripture, you will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next.
  • Allah has cursed them for their unbelief.
  • The curse of Allah is on disbelievers.
  • Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell.
  • Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers.
  • Only evil people are disbelievers.
  • For disbelievers is a painful doom.
  • For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next.
  • "And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire." (They are the non-muslims.)
  • Disbelievers are losers.
  • Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire.
  • "Who forsaketh the religion of Abraham save him who befooleth himself?"
  • Cited in the [url]Hamas Charter[/url] (Article 27) to condemn the idea of a secular state.

  • Those who reject the proofs, are accursed of Allah.
  • Those who die disbelievers, are cursed by Allah, angels, and men.
  • The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened.
  • They will not emerge from the Fire.
  • Disbelievers will be deaf, dumb, and blind.
  • Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom.
  • How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire!
  • Believers must retaliate. Those who transgress will have a painful doom.
  • Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.)
  • Fight them until "religion is for Allah."
  • Those who fail in their duty to Allah are proud and sinful. They will all go to hell.
  • War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not.
  • Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire.
  • Intermarriage is forbidden.
  • The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers.
  • Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire.
  • Allah does not guide disbelievers.
  • "Give us victory over the disbelieving folk."
  • Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom.
  • Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire.
  • Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell.
  • Non-muslims will be punished by Allah for their nonbelief.
  • Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom.
  • "They [Christians and Jews] say: The Fire will not touch us save for a certain number of days. That which they used to invent hath deceived them regarding their religion." (The Fire will burn them forever.)
  • Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers.
  • Allah loveth not the disbelievers.
  • Allah will punish disbelievers in this world and the next. They will have no helpers.
  • Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim.
  • Theirs will be a painful doom.
  • All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die.
  • Disbelievers will be cursed by Allah, angels, and men. They will have a painful doom.
  • Disbelievers will have a painful doom. And they will have no helpers.
  • Disbelievers will have their faces blackened on the last day. They will face an awful doom.
  • Those who disbelieve will be burnt in the Fire.
  • Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you.
  • The Fire is prepared for disbelievers.
  • Give us victory over the disbelieving folk.
  • We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire
  • "Is one who followeth the pleasure of Allah as one who hath earned condemnation from Allah, whose habitation is the Fire?"
  • Unbelievers will burn forever in the Fire.

  • Theirs will be an awful doom.
  • Disbelievers do not harm Allah, but will have a painful doom.
  • Disbelievers will go to Hell.
  • Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom.
  • For the disbelievers and those who make a last-minute conversion, Allah has prepared a painful doom.
  • For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom.
  • Allah has cursed them for their disbelief.
  • Those who ascribe a partner to Allah (like Christians do with Jesus and the Holy Spirit) will not be forgiven. They have "invented a tremendous sin."
  • Those who invent lies about Allah are guilty of flagrant sin.
  • Jews and Christians believe in idols and false deities, yet they claim to be more rightly guided than Muslims.
  • "Those (Christians and Jews) are they whom Allah hath cursed."
  • Hell is sufficient for their burning.
  • Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided.
  • Those who refuse to follow Muhammad, follow false gods and are deceived by Satan.
  • Those who refuse to believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad are hypocrites.
  • Oppose and admonish those who refuse to follow Muhammad.
  • The hypocrites refuse to die for Allah and Muhammad.
  • Those who obey Allah and Muhammad are favored by Allah. They are the best company.
  • Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars.
  • Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil.
  • Allah casts the hypocrites back to disbelief. Don't try to guide those that Allah sends astray.
  • Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.
  • If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant.
  • Believers shouldn't kill believers, unless by mistake. If you kill a believer by mistake, you must set free a believing slave.
  • Believers who kill believers will go to hell.
  • The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
  • For the disbelievers, Allah has prepared a shameful punishment.
  • Relent not in pursuit of the enemy. They have no hope from Allah.
  • Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell.
  • They (those who ascribe partners to Allah) invoke in his stead only females and pray to Satan.
  • Allah will lead them astray and they will go to hell.
  • Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah.
  • For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom.
  • Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell.
  • Allah will not allow disbelievers to succeed against believers.
  • Do not choose disbelievers as friends.
  • The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there.
  • You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom.
  • For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom.
  • God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell.
  • Those who deny Islam will be losers in the Hereafter.
  • Disbelievers are the rightful owners of Hell.

    Chankya

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    Principled
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    Hi Chankya,

    Well, that does not make for comfortable reading!

    I'm actually on holiday and am in the hotel office, using their computer, so won't be able to get back to reply properly for a couple of weeks. Just didn't want you to think I was ignoring you!

    Love and peace,

    Judy

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    Principled
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    Well, I’m back and must just say that I never dreamed when I posted this good news above about a revision to the Hadiths, that it would unleash this from the Q’uran!

    I have heard some Sufi scholars discuss passages like those above and they use the word "unbeliever" against themselves when they have doubts – trying to find the higher, more spiritual meaning. Sadly, not everyone searches for a deeper meaning in their sacred texts and taken literally, you can understand the way hatred is inflamed. But there are some pretty horrible passages in the Bible too – especially in the Old Testament. The way we interpret scripture can lead to either the most heinous crimes or lead to great goodness, charity and mercy.

    I did a search to try to find some balance and have come up with a link to 10 mainly positive passages about the “People of the Book” – the Jews and Christians – OK 10 doesn’t exactly balance 101 above, but these are specifically about Jews and Christians, rather than the general umbrella of “unbelievers”.

    Here’s one:

    005.069

    YUSUFALI: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

    This too is nothing like those horrible passages above:

    “Do not argue with the followers of earlier revelation other than in a most kindly manner – except those of them who did wrong and are oppressors – and say ‘we believe in that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to you; for our God and your God is one and the same, and it is unto Him that we surrender ourselves.’” - Qur’an 29:46

    I found this reflective Sufi article that I really resonate with too:

    [DLMURL] http://www.australiansuficentre.org/article_testhardship.htm[/DLMURL]

    In the name of Allah, The Merciful, The Compassionate

    With so much unrest in the world and fighting between the nations, it is important that we recognise the misuse of religion (whether deliberate or unconscious) as a means of propagating conflict and violence. One wonders if those who are involved or causing such devastating actions or policies, have ever properly understood their respective scriptures and their teachings. As a Muslim, I need to be more critical of my own people since we have the book of Allah (swt) from which “nothing has been left out”, nor has it been contaminated by the hand of man. But alas, like most religious scripture, the Qur’an is being read by many Muslims at an exoteric level, and as a result it is often misunderstood and misused………..

    Mary Baker Eddy who was a religious reformer of the 19th Century had much to say about interpreting the Scriptures from a spiritual rather than literal and materialistic way. In fact, I know of quite a few Muslims who study her book Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures as they find that it helps them to understand the deeper, spiritual meaning of the Q’uran better.

    These are some of her words about Scriptural interpretation:

    Tyranny, intolerance, and bloodshed, wherever found, arise from the belief that the infinite is formed after the pattern of mortal personality, passion, and impulse. (Science and Health p 94)

    The one important interpretation of Scripture is the spiritual. (Science and Health p 320)

    The Scriptures are very sacred. Our aim must be to have them understood spiritually, for only by this understanding can truth be gained. (Science and Health p 547)

    Love and peace,

    Judy

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