Oh dear, if only matters were that simplistic, I wonder how many prayers were said by 6 million jews and still they suffered.
Hi Jeannie,
I totally understand where you are coming from, but the laws of aeronautics existed when our cavemen ancestors roamed the earth. If you had told them that one day people would fly, they would probably have cracked up in ridicule.
The truth is, that there are hundreds of thousands of verified healings and examples of protection in the Christian Science archives, like Josh Niles' above and those on my 'Visions of angels and protection during WWI' thread. These experiences were profound and life-changing (and often life-saving) to everyone who had them - they were not simplistic. Does everyone get healed? No, but we don't see that as the product of a big puppet master in the sky deciding which string to pull and which not, but instead as the result of where our thinking, trust, faith and above all, understanding is.
I don't believe in re-inventing the wheel and as I was challenged with these same criticisms on the WW1 thread, I've included some quotes and also links to my replies there.
But first, I find this article to me, helps explain this difficult conundrum.
[url]The ant and the sun [/url]
This example below of protection to me is a good example of what is needed in the most dire circumstances. It tells of how a young seaman found himself marooned on a raft in the South Pacific for six days. He and his mates who were adrift had no food or water, but the experience galvanized his sense of faith....
He watched helplessly as [four of his raft mates] died. Harrison longed to see his wife and 2-year-old son; at one point, he decided to give up.
"I bowed my head many times during the six days and prayed, but I didn't have faith; I was so upset with the Navy for not sending help," Harrison told the students. "I made up my mind I was going to die."
But a peak of a mountain that was visible on the horizon reminded Harrison of his childhood. "I thought of a scripture that my mother used to read to me and my younger brothers and sisters before we would go to school," he said.
The scripture said, "If you have the faith of a grain of mustard seed, God will remove the mountain," Harrison said.
That's when he realized, he said, that he couldn't just bow his head down and pray for being saved, but that he needed to thank God for saving him first. Harrison persuaded his shipmates to pray and thank God for answering their prayers first.
"I must've thanked God 60 or 65 times in the next 15 minutes," he said. "After my prayer and thanking God, I got the feeling that the button had been pushed for our rescue."
Less than an hour later, three aircraft rescued Harrison and his shipmates...
[url]Faith to move mountains [/url]
With understanding prayer, based on spiritual laws, things happen which have no human explanation, like this:
Several months ago our daily newspapers carried a story of a soldier adrift on a raft. Having no light to signal with, he prayed fervently to God for deliverance. A pilot flying high above the raft saw a light, guided his plane to it, and effected a rescue. "I had no flashlight," explained the pilot on the raft, when he was rescued. Meekness calls for absolute reliance on God, and such reliance is always accompanied by divine illumination.
[url]"THE WAY THROUGH THE VALLEY" [/url]
These below were part of a response to another HP member.
...most people, when they pray, use the prayer of petition - asking to be given this or that, to be relieved of pain or disease or danger - all very understandable and often effective, but it's actually blind belief. It is starting from a standpoint of lack and separation - lack of health, peace of mind, safety etc. You are seeing yourself as a solitary mortal, separated from good (another word for God). This is dualism and this sort of prayer normally has quite a lot of doubt and fear associated with it. It's a bit like trying to drive a carriage with one horse pulling to the left and the other pulling to the right.
The prayer of affirmation on the other hand, starts with perfect Creator, Spirit, perfect creation, spiritual, ONE, despite everything the mortal senses throw at us, trying to convince us that this is not the case. It's not easy keeping our thought focused on Spirit like this and it can take years of study and practice. Jesus came to show mankind how to think and live in a different way - a way of spiritual understanding and One-ness with God, Spirit. A way of thinking and living that would give us dominion over all the limitations and sufferings of matter. He did not come to start a new religion with traditions, dogma etc. Was his way heeded? No. Men took some of his words, often used them to their own ends but ignored his works.
There have been individuals throughout history, from all backgrounds, who have walked in the light and have had glimpses of ultimate Truth, spiritual reality and have, to some extent, been able to overcome the limitations and sufferings of matter. But often, apart from a few devotees (I'm thinking here of the Hindu yogis) the overwhelming majority of people utterly reject having to leave their comfort (and even sometimes their discomfort) in matter. Everything material is what is real - anything spiritual is make believe, just like God.
[url]Post 22 Visions of angels and protection during WWI[/url]
[url] Post 24[/url]
And also,
I started this as an inspirational thread, to shine a tiny bit of light and gratitude onto a terrible terrible war, filled with untold suffering. War is always evil. Sometimes it's the lesser of two evils. While standing up to the Nazis was a very clear-cut choice between good and evil, I don't think anyone (especially those poor lads who went through it) really is sure why the First World War started or what it was all about.
While the world is remembering and recounting all the horror of that terrible war, I was so grateful to be reminded of the Angels of Mons - a phenomena that, despite all the attempts of cynical people to discredit it, has survived, with the men who saw the sights going to their graves insisting that they saw angels and that those angels saved their lives.
I then searched the Christian Science testimonies from WW1 and was so grateful to find, that, through faith, a few men were able to come through the same terrible experiences that either killed, maimed or permanently disabled others, physically and mentally. I really had hoped to find some from other religions or philosophies, from men who were at the front (and would have been delighted to read any special experiences of nurses etc in the field hospitals - and any civilians who came through danger through prayer). The fact is, that I couldn't find any. I even wrote to a Jewish museum to ask if they had any. I can't believe there aren't others - it's probably that the CS Church has kept records (which are now searchable online) over the past 130 years.
I don't know if you're read all the testimonies I've posted but I find it so inspiring that anyone could find freedom from fear, peace and protection right in the middle of bombardments, extreme danger and sheer terror. It's only by feeling the presence of divine Love, Spirit, that we can reach a spiritual consciousness that can be untouched by what is going on materially all around. I was inspired by the way the men (of all nationalities, including the two beautiful German testimonies I posted) had no desire to harm anyone and in many cases said how they were able to come right through the war without firing a shot or hurting anyone at all. I'm also grateful for how they included all their men in their prayers and the protection that the whole group experienced was felt and acknowledged.
I found some of the testimonies in a book titled, "A Century of Christian Science Healing" and just before they begin the war testimonies, on p 73, they write:
"A Christian Scientist facing a great calamity in which hundreds, thousands, or even millions of lives may be lost does not think that the saving power of divine Love is especially directed toward him. He is convinced, however, that the law of God properly understood and practiced vanquishes every evil circumstance that may present itself, and that this law must be demonstrated individually though it is available universally." (my highlights)
The fact that these few men have demonstrated these laws proves that they are available for all, regardless of religion (or none).
[url]Post 52[/url]
Hope this explains a bit where I am coming from. Love and peace,
Judy
"I must've thanked God 60 or 65 times in the next 15 minutes," he said. "After my prayer and thanking God, I got the feeling that the button had been pushed for our rescue."
Less than an hour later, three aircraft rescued Harrison and his shipmates...
Let me see now, praying and thanking God is essential to this God deciding to be a nice God.
No need to reply, I am not returning to this thread, I find it unbelievable such naïvety exists.
Though Jeannie's not returning, for anyone else reading this - it's got nothing whatever to do with a "nice" God or a "horrid" God". The principle of mathematics exists and is available to everyone - educated, not educated, atheist, religionists and those in between! The God I try to understand and be guided by is divine Principle, Love, not an anthropomorphic being, with human emotions, deciding to be good to one and not to another on the basis of their petitions, their religion etc etc.
It was through gratitude that the thought of the sailors came closer to spiritual reality. It was through gratitude that those sailors were beginning to realise and acknowledge the presence of all good. They were no longer seeing duality - mortal existence, with all the fears, dangers and limitations of being cut off, separate from God, Spirit; but through gratitude, their thought was lifted and came closer and closer to reality - to their one-ness with God, all good. They were giving thanks for already being rescued (before there was any evidence of it) - that was what made the the difference.
Jesus gave various instructions about prayer. One was:
"I tell you, you can pray for anything, and if you believe that youve received it, it will be yours." (Mark 11:24) Doesn't that also sound a bit like the law of attraction? No-one on HP would object to that)
Jesus gave thanks BEFORE he multiplied the loaves and fishes and BEFORE he raised Lazarus from the dead. Giving thanks before the evidence of healing or supply etc, is a very Christian understanding.
As Mary Baker Eddy (who discovered these laws of God she named Christian Science wrote:
Does Deity interpose in behalf of one worshipper, and not help another who offers the same measure of prayer? If the sick recover because they pray or are prayed for audibly, only petitioners (per se or by proxy) should get well. In divine Science, where prayers are mental, all may avail themselves of God as a very present help in trouble. Love [God] is impartial and universal in its adaptation and bestowals. It is the open fount which cries, Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters.(Science and Health p 12)
Prayer cannot change the Science of being, but it tends to bring us into harmony with it.(S&H p 2)
True prayer is not asking God for love; it is learning to love, and to include all mankind in one affection. Prayer is the utilization of the love wherewith He loves us. Prayer begets an awakened desire to be and do good. It makes new and scientific discoveries of God, of His goodness and power. It shows us more clearly than we saw before, what we already have and are; and most of all, it shows us what God is.(No and Yes)
Several years ago, a friend had a remarkable healing through gratitude. It's in post 8 of this thread:
[url]Let's make our attitude - GRATITUDE![/url]
It speaks volumes for what I've been trying to explain.
Love and peace
Judy