Migraine like auras without the migraine.

Hello LoopyLoo

I'd not heard of cranial arteritis before, so I looked it up on the web. The thing which prompted me to respond was that I've had something similar, so I thought I'd share why they occur for me. I suffer from bipolar disorder, and sometimes I do something very self-destructive and not go to bed for days (which isn't so odd, because [url]sleep deprivation[/url] has a positive effect on mood... but it is strongly discouraged). There comes a point around day 3 (between 48-72hours of no sleep) when I get visual hallucinations in my peripheral vision... and I see auras. That's when I know I need to get to bed.

When you told me that this was an elderly person with a health condition treated by steroids ([url]which terribly interfere with REM part of sleep cycle[/url]) I wondered if either the illness or the medication were depriving her of some critical sleep phase... much like what happens to me during my no sleep at all... and the brain's response is this aura vision?

Normally I would suggest supplementation with magnesium for two reasons: 1) Steroids increase the excretion of magnesium in the urine (meaning she'll be low in it) and 2) magnesium improves the quality of sleep. [url]Magnesium supplementation doesn't affect the efficacy of steroids[/url] - so it's quite safe to take when you are taking steroids. However, elderly people have rubbish digestion (!) and taking oral supplements are not well absorbed. You may instead wish to suggest to your friend to soak her feet in a bowl of warm water to which a cup of Epsom Salts is added. Epsom Salts are magnesium sulphate - and the magnesium will be absorbed via the skin on the feet. Soak until the water is cool. Try this daily for a week to see if that makes any difference. Alternatively she can make a body cream containing Epsom Salts which she can rub a couple of tablespoons on after her shower/bath - and again the magnesium is absorbed into the bloodstream via the skin. If that's of interest let me know and I'll give you a recipe.

Ha, of course I am assuming the cause of the aura is sleep-related... which obviously may have no basis in fact... so the above may be complete rubbish. But a nice daily soak in warm Epsom Salts water will be nice and relaxing, so no harm done either way.

Ava x

Thanks so much for the super quick reply! Just runningout of laptop power here so will reply properly tomorrow. But think you are spot on with what you say... the sleep depravation and magnesium issues. I know she is taking heavy duty calcium to counteract depletion as a result of taking the steroids so I suppose that might also relate in some way to magnesium....

Will definately be back to post properly tomorrow. Thanks a mill for your fab insight! 😀 She's beginning to get quite down about it. Will advise foot soak asap! 😉

Ah... well that would make complete sense then re the magnesium. Excess calcium supplementation depletes magnesium. This is because you need magnesium to assimilate calcium, hence all the available magnesium is being used to process the calcium... leaving nothing for magnesium's other functions. As a result you may get magnesium deficiency symptoms.

Whilst the following [url]is not a scientific reference[/url] it's something I've read many times in reputable resources:

"Excess calcium DEPLETES magnesium from the body and as a result brings about symptoms of a deficiency. It is not important how much you take but how much is left in the body. Remember calcium and magnesium need to be in correct proportions, otherwise calcium goes from being a nutrient into a pollutant. When this mineral is deficient in the body excess calcium can cause heart disease, arthritis, senility, calcification of organs and tissues that eventually degenerate. Thus excess calcium can become a real problem, while excess magnesium is not any concern*. This mineral does not build up in the body but the excess is eliminated while excess calcium builds up."

*I've added the asterisk: Excess magnesium it is simply excreted via the bowels... meaning you will get diarrhea. The way to determine your optimal magnesium dosage is the amount which gives you comfortably loose bowels.

Ava x

Hi Ava

I'm impressed with your understanding of magnesium balance! I hadn't realised that visual disturbances can be a side effect of low magnesium. Thanks for the links and information Ava - you never know when it might come in useful.

Thanks Caroline, that is kind of you to say. I probably know a bit too much about magnesium to be considered healthy... I like to think of myself as the Magnesium Queen... when it's perhaps more accurate to call me the Magnesium Nerd!

I'm not sure that magnesium status causes visual problems directly - but I am certain that sleep deprivation does. My thinking is that the lady is not sleeping properly because she is on steroidal medication. Steroids are known to increase the excretion of magnesium in the urine. Plus she is taking (high doses of?) calcium - which further compromises the magnesium status. Low magnesium influences your sleep pattern, as do taking steroids. So my thinking is that improving the magnesium status might improve the quality of sleep - and that might reduce the auras. As I said when I go for days without sleep I get visual hallucinations and see auras. Mine aren't caused by low magnesium (just low sleep) - and this lady's may not be caused by low magnesium (but low sleep). However taking magnesium when she's doing two things which reduce it, might help her sleep... and reduce the auras. A bit of a ramble - did that paragraph make any sense at all??

Ava x

Thanks Caroline, that is kind of you to say. I probably know a bit too much about magnesium to be considered healthy... I like to think of myself as the Magnesium Queen... when it's perhaps more accurate to call me the Magnesium Nerd!

Knowledge is always helpful in my experience!

... Steroids are known to increase the excretion of magnesium in the urine. Plus she is taking (high doses of?) magnesium - which further compromises the magnesium status. ...

Ava x

Do you mean calcium? - just for the record of course 😉 (excusable in your current state, I know) :dft005:

Love and Light

Oh, yes, that's exactly what I meant - thank you very much for pointing out my error. I'll go back and edit the original one and put a note in the editing notes.

Thanks Caroline x.

Ava x

Ava, thanks a mill for all the info and the links.

The patient (!), my Mum actually, has some other symptoms, some I think could be a sign of magnesium deficiency and some which she tells me are from the steroids.

I was talking to her this morning and she told me has a racing pulse some mornings when she gets up, I reckon that could be a magnesium issue, do you? And when she was on the higher dose of steroids her legs felt weak and "wobbly". Could be magnesium I suppose or just the sterooids - or both! and interestingly enough, when I mentioned the lack of sleep possibly causing the auras, she said she thought she did seem to have an episode following a poor nights sleep.

She also had a look at the heavy duty calcium she takes and as far as she could see, they also have Vit D but no magnesium! :rolleyes:

So she is now under strict instruction to invest in Epsom salts asap and have a lovely foot soak daily! And I'd love if you would share your recipe for the magnesium body lotion. Might try it myself and see if it would help my PMT!

So thanks again Magnesium Queen! You are extremely knowledgeable and helpful! 🙂

Hello again

I'm glad that it's your mum, because the recipe is quite fiddly and hopefully that'd mean you'd wish to do it for her? There are two ways to go - either using Epsom Salts which is something that's easy to buy, but hard to make the cream with. Or using magnesium chloride powder which is hard to get hold of, but much easier to make cream with.

1. I've looked on eBay and you [url]can buy magnesium chloride powder[/url] from a range of suppliers. The problem is that they either sell flakes, or massive 5kg bags... which I think are used for aquariums. Magnesium chloride is anhydrous, so all you do is stir it into a base cream (E45 will do) on a ratio of 1:1. You may wish to add a little more cream. Stir with one of those tiny whisks you can buy from independent kitchen shops ([url]like this[/url]) or a fine fork. You'll need to whisk for ages (maybe 10-20 mins). I tend to just sit in front of the TV and stir, stir, stir. If you buy flakes you may be able to grind them in a coffee mill - or a mortar and pestle... possibly.

2. This is a bit more fiddly. Essentially you are using 1 cup of Epsom Salts, 1 cup of E45, and third of a cup of hot water. But you need to dissolve the Epsom Salts in the water, or it won't be carried into your skin by the cream (it'll be gritty).

Before you start make sure you have measured out your E45 cream and put it to the side. Put a saucepan (glass, if you have one) on the lowest heat, and add a cup of Epsom Salts. Add a third of a cup of hot water, tablespoon by tablespoon, and stir with a [url]small spatula[/url] (like the top one in that pic). Your goal is to evaporate off most of the water but have the Epsom Salts dissolved. It'll take longer than you think - so if in doubt keep going for a bit longer. Have your E45 cream ready and measured. When you think you've dissolved the Epsom Salts take it off the heat and immediately stir in the E45 cream ideally with one of those little whisks or a fork. If you don't act quickly the salts will start to form again and you'll be back at square one! Whisk lightly and quickly and stop when it resembles a mousse-like consistency.

Decant it into a tupperware container and keep in the cupboard (i.e. away from warmth and sunlight). It will separate, so every time you use it you need to give it a good stir. I use the small spatula above. Apply about a tablespoon after a bath/shower when you are warm and your skin is clean. It takes about 10-15mins to be absorbed into the skin - and you tend to feel the effects in about an hour. You can use more than a tablespoon - remember that any excess will just be excreted by your bowels. So, it won't hurt to cover your whole body with the cream, and really relax.

Note: you can buy a whole collection of [url]magnesium oils[/url] which are just super-saturated magnesium water. You apply it by a spray bottle. The amount you get per dose is quite small - 10 squirts is 180mg. 10 squirts would do one leg. I don't like the feel of it, and I find I squirt as much past my body as I do on it. But don't let that put you off. You may wish to consider trying one of them? Very expensive though!

There is still the oral supplement route. If she is taking calcium tablets and doesn't mind doing that (some older folk have difficulty swallowing tablets) then buying magnesium citrate tablets is an option too.

A bit long, sorry!

Ava x

A million thanks again Ava! 😀

I've printed out some of your info for my Mum to have a read through. Really hope the magnesium helps, either to help her sleep or fix any deficiency she might have... well probably has considring the high calcium intake without any magnesium I will post back and let you know. 🙂

I just find it amazing that doctors don't understand the necessity for magnesium to balance the calcium. Not only that but the calcium I was given was sweetened with aspartame, so I stopped taking it! I buy my own now.

I just find it amazing that doctors don't understand the necessity for magnesium to balance the calcium. Not only that but the calcium I was given was sweetened with aspartame, so I stopped taking it! I buy my own now.

I do too, it is incredible. I knew my Mum was taking calcium and had kind of assumed it would have been a Calcium/Magnesium mix. :rolleyes:

Thought I'd post back and let you know how the magnesium treatment (!) is going!

Well I told my Mum to start on the Epsom salts foot soak straight away, which she did. She's also taking supplements in the evening. The great news is her sleep had really improved!

And even better, the auras which used to occur around every second day or so, are now occurring around every 5 or 6 days now! 😀

So thank you so much ava, you are a genius!!! Thank you, thank you! And my Mum says thank you too! 🙂

That's really good to hear - fabulous news! Please congratulate your mum on giving these suggestions a go. For some folk who receive orthodox treatments it can take a lot of courage to take on recommendations which don't come from a GP. Credit should go to you though for searching out help for your mum. That's just so lovely.

Ava x