Thanks for those thoughts. I am interested in the fact that you think improvement continues after three months. I am delighted with the results of my op four months on in that I have no nerve pain, no numbness now in right leg and can use my leg normally again - had trouble before on stairs, getting in and out of car and could only lift my leg about an inch from the bed. I am now upright instead of bent and my walking has improved albeit that I can now do about 100 yards instead of 50. That is all good and indeed all I was promised by neurosurgeon. The other side of the coin is that I have arthritis of my spine so have constant backache when standing and walking, but fortunately none at all now when sitting or lying down. I suspect this pain has been made worse by the op but not really sure as I had the nerve pain for a year and this rather took over. I was on a heavy drugs regime too until the op and this also masked the arthritis to a degree.
I still hope for improvement with the walking. In some ways there has been a further improvement - my husband says I walked two miles one day on holiday recently but have to say this took all morning and about 15 rests on forms and using my stick/stool. That is progress but sometimes it seems a bit of a struggle.
I start my physio this week. Why four months on you ask. Owing to a slight disagreement between two hospitals I have had an hour's assessment at one and two half hours at the other then placed on a waiting list for a course in their gym - I have finally come to the top of the list. When that is done I am to have an assessment and then a six week course in their hydropool. Only then will I be allowed to join the local gym again and further on still cycling has been recommended. Apparently if you have spinal stenosis and a narrowed spinal canal this causes neurogenic claudication which limits in my case currently only about 100 yards before having to sit down or lean over something,. Cycling because you lean forward apparently would open the canal and be better than walking. So onwards and upwards. They reckon this might be about April (so at least the weather will be better). We had actually been on the verge of selling my bike.
I would recommend this operation to people if all else fails and the neurosurgeons think it a good idea. Unless you go privately in which case greed could come into it, if you go on the NHS I really do not think they advise you to have the op unless they think you really need it and they think they can help you. In my case I saw the neurosurgeon twice before having the op, the second time because I had got cold feet and removed myself from the list. I therefore saw three people go in and come out ahead of me. It was a very small waiting room and each time I heard the conversation they had with the people they had left outside. In two cases the answer was no - in one case it was come back in six months. None of them were happy.
He never questioned the need for me to have the laminectomy and discectomy and because of this I trusted him.
Best wishes to you for the New Year and thanks for all the help you have given people on here. (I am really not going to contemplate you doing 48 miles - in my state I find it depressing!!!).
Angela
Month 22: Im so sorry to those that have been trying to get in touch I've literally been snowed under with work. Im back now and still going strong at 22 months post op. I will say ive started experiencing a burning sensation in the sole of my foot and the dr's told me to try amitriptyline for 6 weeks but within 2 it had completely gone? the nerve still proves a complex body part and this was 10mg once a day for 10 days... no further heat experienced. Hope everyone is well
Hi everyone,
Update from my L5/S1 Microdiscectomy in July 2013.....
9 months on since surgery and all had been well on the pain front. No sciatica which is the best feeling to get rid of it. However since I first had surgery I still have muscle weakness in my leg that was affected (my left leg), and I have continued to feel "fragile" if that's the right word to use. Its difficult to explain but I still don't feel strong enough or ready to do certain exercises. I have tried swimming twice and both times I only managed to do 3 or 4 lengths (small lengths) using crawl legs instead of breaststroke legs, when we go walking if I go further than a few miles then I get terrible pain in the side and back of my left knee (which is where the pain started originally before affecting my back 12 months ago), I don't feel comfortable or strong enough to cycle or run yet, or even do any other types of exercise. Its really affected my life I have to say, and I really didn't think that after 9 months I would still be this weak. I am not sure if I am just being far too over cautious and treating my back like its made of glass, or whether what I am feeling is me still not being ready to do more exercise etc. Over the past week or so I have been getting pain almost on a daily basis which is a sharp pain just below my left buttock, and then in my knee if we walk too far. The pain in my buttock is quite noticeable at night time when I am sitting on the sofa which has a leg rest (L shape sofa). Perhaps its not the right position to be sitting in? I experienced this pain 12 months ago just before I started getting sciatica. Since the surgery I have also suffered with cramp in my left calf muscle, which I never had before surgery. I also get cramp in my toes in my left foot quite often too. I'm really hoping the pain I am feeling is not the first signs of a re-herniation. I have been so careful not to lift, bend or twist since my surgery. Perhaps its because I have an office job and I need to get up from my chair more often. Not sure if all of this is related but I wonder if anyone else has experience the same this far on after surgery?
Hi sallyc01.
I believe the condition is very different from person to person. I'm 30 years old, fairly sporty and I had my surgery about 7 months back. I feel like almost back to normal, although every now and than the back flares up after exercising a lot.
Regarding left leg cramps - yes, that is something that I had at the beginning. I imagine it has to do with a strained/damaged sciatica nerve (and I think this get worse the longer one tries to live with the pain pre-surgery - I was like that for 3 weeks, i.e. in bed. I think the wait progressively made it worse).
As described before, my issue got to "surgery" level, once I tried a physio to lower a minor backache. Physio made it so bad that I needed the surgery. Having said that, different people had different experiences with physio. I slowly build my strength with Pilates and slowly getting back into football again. At this point and for the rest of my life I will have to focus on core exercises the most, doing daily planks and stretches.
By the sounds of your problem, I think you should maybe have another MRI taken and checked out whether re-herniation has happened? I wouldn't recommend any back/core exercises at this point but get the current condition checked. It may very well be that you've been overcautious and the core is not strong enough. But before trying Pilates and other exercises again see the doctor!
Good luck and don't lose hope!
And re workplace !!! Please be particularly wary of this.
1. Get a lighter laptop/equipment for the commute.
2. Get a footrest and possible a yoga cushion for the chair - ask your company.
3. I usually stand up every 35 min or so do a few side bends and hamstring stretches. I think many people focus a lot on core and neglect the thighs and legs in general. They have to be stretched and trained to build a strong upper and lower body in total.
4. While sitting try this: sit all the way to the front of edge of the chair, core tight, back straight, "sit up tall" - think of a book being balanced on your head. Core tight! Legs at 90 deg angle. Then straighten one leg at a time, to feel a nice pull on the hamstring. Do this regularly when in the office!
Hi cinnamonpanda thank you so much for your response. I think you're right about seeing my GP and possibly bring too over cautious. I will try those stretches whilst at my desk starting from tomorrow. I'm only 34 years old so young like yourself and I lived with pre-surgery pain for far too long. The pain started in September 2012 and progressively got worse. In the February I started on medication being naproxen, diclofenac and paracetamol, then In April was prescribed tramadol in addition as the pain got so bad. I had surgery in mid July and the run up to it I was unable stand up straight and I shuffled along as I couldn't walk properly. I still have numbness alongside my foot and little toe which the surgeon said would remain that way now as the sciatic nerve was so badly damaged. In terms of my original MRI scan the screen showed no gap at at where my disc was, so it was as bad as it gets. I really hope this isn't the start of it again but I'm going to start stretches and gentle exercise to hopefully get through it. I heard yoga and Pilates are really good so I might consider starting one of them now, I never felt ready but I feel I have to strengthen my core like you said, I've heard this such a lot. Thanks again for your response and all the best with your recovery x
Hi Sally,
Cramps: I had it in my left calf and it manifested in toe cramps that left them curling over. This only occurred after a long period when I stopped mobilizing my back/legs and spent prolonged periods on the computer or sitting. For me there is a definite correlation between inactivity and these leg cramps.
Muscle weakness: The muscle weakness is different from person to person and in my experience this was a challenge to over come because how do you "activiate" muscles which you have lesser control over? It came down to getting the muscle memory back into play. You can go to the gym and try a leg press but without ALL the muscle groups from the buttocks to the calf firing then its difficult. So you need to break down the groups and its is long a teadious. For myself its was single leg calf raises 3 times a day against a wall to cover the ankle and calves (I used to go until I literally couldn't do any more - 700 was my max out after a year - and yes = painful and stiff next day (advocate a bath after). For the quads it was no weight squats on single leg. Again same as calf to fail. For the buttocks/glutes the exercise is lay on the floor on chest. Everything in contact with floor. Bend one leg to 90 degrees and raise the thigh off the floor. Put a finger on the leg that's raised buttock and you will feel it contract. Breaking down the muscle groups aids in the overall muscle memory so when you use them all = improved strength (and this is al without using weights at the gym. That's the next step. Swimming uses all the muscle groups and is a good overall yardstick for progression. Also the Knee + back are common reciprocal pain points. Accupuncture for the knee works well on the back and vis a vesa. Have you gone down this route?
Sitting: the pain you get here Im going to say is what most sufferers get. If you cant sit comfortably at 90 degree leg then try the slump test. Sit on edge of table with legs hanging off. Chin up (not on chest). Raise the none pain leg/ See how high it goes. Now try the same on the other leg. Notice the angle it reaches before the neural tension comes on and you get symptoms.pain level increase. Now apply that to your sitting at work and home. They key with sitting is progression. Starting with neural tension at 90 degrees sends pain signals. Starting at below the pain threshold lets the brain stay calm. You then add the leg bend progressively over time until you reach 90 degrees. I hope that makes sense. I do get angry at physios that jump in with the sit up right, don't slouch and keep legs at 90 degrees from the very start. If they. The best physio I had has had this and so 'gets' what we are going through. IMPORTANT: The nerve is like anything the brain has control of and you can start retraining it at any point post surgery, just the longer left = longer it takes.
Reherniation: If they offer a scan go for it. The brains difficult to comprehend and seeing the scan showing no reherniation will key you into seeing you are on the road to recovery. My scan 1 year on showed a tiny prolapse but this is 99% expected as the disc moves to fill gaps left.
Sorry to bring up an old thread,
I've just had an L4/5 Discectomy (August 14th) and have been at home recovering since the 15th.
My story is quite a long and somewhat varied one.
It all started in May 2008 with an itch in my lower right leg down the calf which due to my job at the time (Fork Lift Truck Driver) was suggested by my GP to be a pulled Tendon and I was advised to rest from driving for a few days. The itch went away and I thought nothing more of it until one day it became a lot more prominent and would not go away and was now starting to cause me some discomfort especially when standing.
I also have an old scar from when I broke my right leg after being knocked off my bike when I was 7. So my GP thought I'd aggravated a 30+ year old injury and sent me for an X-ray which came back after 2 weeks clear. So this time he decided to send me for a Nuclear Bone Scan which took 2 months for the appt. to come through and a further 2 weeks for the results which again were perfectly normal.
I had by now started to do some research on the Internet and discovered Sciatica and how it can be caused. I returned back to my GP after nearly 6 months of this constant niggle with my findings and suggested that I may have damaged a disc in my back, he did no more than laugh at this saying that "Sciatica won't be felt that low down in your leg". But he sent me for an X-ray on my back which came back after a further 2 weeks 'inconclusive'.
Meanwhile I'd been on Tramadol, Gabapentin, Naprixim, Amitryptilin, Pain Patches, and put myself on a 10 Week course of Accupuncture. All to no avail.
A year had gone by and something strange happened after a night out. I woke up with all the pain in my lower LEFT leg with no pain at all in my right leg.
After denying me an MRI scan on 2 occasions my GP finally allowed me to have one but doubted anything would come of it.
It took a further 3 months to get an appt. and 2 weeks for the results and what do you know?? I had a L4/5 significant prolapse.
The pain was now so intense that I couldn't stand for more than a few minutes and the only true comfort was lying down. I also now had a stoop where I've been putting pressure on the opposite side, so my entire trunk has shifted.
I'd given up all confidence in my GP and asked not to see him again and started to see another one with far more up to date experience of modern technology in treating pain.
I was managing my pain quite easily until the morning of my fabulous Holiday I managed to damage another Disc and do further damage to the original one by doing of all things taking a shower!!
I didn't let it spoil my holiday although by now I had pain in RIGHT leg when sitting and LEFT leg when standing.
My GP arranged another MRI which proved this to be the case and suggested Surgery as the only available option.
Six years later and I'm here, the Post Op pain has all but gone and I have no LEFT leg pain whatsoever. BUT!!! I now have excruciating pain in my RIGHT thigh when either trying to sit down or trying to stand from a seated position. I also now have more severe pain in my lower LEFT leg as well that remains for a while when standing.
Only yesterday (18th) I couldn't put one foot in front of the other without having to hold on to something as I felt I was going to fall over and my Left leg couldn't take my weight as I tried to move forwards.
I have been taking Oromorph, Ibruprofen and Paracetamol but none of this takes away the pain I have when standing.
After talking with my Consultants Secretary, it has been suggested that I return to Hospital.
What I don't understand is that when I was discharged I could move quite easily with little to no pain at all. I've followed the Physio's advice and have been doing the exercises I was given and getting up at regular intervals and walking about.
Since the phone call to the Hospital I've got my movement back but the leg pain is still very much prominent going as far as my ankle and I cannot crouch down or sit on anything other than my Computer chair. Otherwise I have the terrible thigh pain which feels like a very tight Hamstring.
I still have the hope that I will be free of the Sciatica and hopefully this is all part of the healing process, my only concern is that after reading the posts on here and my Physio letter I shouldn't be experiencing any leg pain. But I've had this for over 6 years and almost certainly have some Nerve damage so my road to recovery will be a lot longer than some.
Sorry for the long post, I've just found this Forum and only wish I'd found it before my Op.
Micro you are an inspiration of what can be achieved and I only hope to have a fraction of your success.
Thanks
Andy
You should really have started a new thread as so many of these old ones get ignored now, even when there is a new post. Your situation although very sad and painful is not unusual. It is quite common to get an increase in after surgery pain, I was warned about it several times, but I refused the ops. It is all to do with the wearing off of the anaesthetic and heavy duty pain and anti inflam drugs, there is often a flare then it settles., but check back with the docs asap.
Month 28
Sorry I've been away, busy bee recently. Well I've tried to update on here as often as I could since having my surgery just under 2 1/2years ago and my input today is one of concern and possibly a few things that people with chronic back pain and their family/friends shouldnt ignore.
Firstly to get it out of the way is the psychological effect that the combined pain, lack of sleep, reduced mobility etc has on the mind. I was fortunate about 3 months ago to see a friend who underwent surgery very similar to my discectomy. Now I point out here she contacted me out of the blue (not heard from in over a year). So I went to see her and noticed despite lack of contact how different she was. The first 30minutes everything was friendly and she was all smiles then very suddenly less talkative, very pessimistic about pretty much everything and very much withdrawn. Now I was very confused and did ask if she was ok to which she became agitated then just got up and left. I went home and didnt hear from her again until a month ago when she emailed again saying she needed to explain somethings. To shorten this considerably now it turned out she had been diagnosed manic depressive and the dr related it too the injury which had led to her surgery and the effects the longterm pain was having.
My purpose of writing this is to hopefully point out that people in our situation cope differently and the psychological impact can evidently be significant. She contacted me (for which I am very glad) because she felt some connection through the understanding of the injury. We email and talk quite a lot now and sometimes back and pain sufferers do need that crutch and I just hope people dont miss the signs (like i did at the time) that sometimes the help sufferers need is more than just drugs. If someone you know seems different i am not saying harrass them with questions but maybe just check they are ok in themselves. I think I always underestimated the mental health impact of this injury and i just want people to be aware as both a possible sufferer not getting the right help, and as for those in that support network that just think surgery/drugs cures all, theres clearly scars for some people on the inside we can often miss.
Secondly then the other issue I have been helping my friend with now is debt. Now I can only reference long term here what I have been kindly told and researched along with my friend and its very short although important. In the short term debt can be devasting and leave people in a panic, sleepless, and ultimately destitute if not addressed properly. Short term if you have debts, loans, credit cards etc then you must speak to the right people. My friend noted stepchange and payplan debt management (both free) helped her to ensure her debts were minimized from £xxx a month to £x while she went through surgery and rehab. I firmly believe these free services should not be sniffed at for what they can do for us. Obviously earning money is significant but if you can limit at least debt repayments its a start (no these do not = defaults or ccj's or anything. They are just agreements with creditors that once you can repay you will. They work with all banks, credit cards and payday loan lenders as government backed)
The second part is the longer term financial impact. Some people like my friend have both chronic pain post surgery and the mental health issues. If you are in this boat or just one part of then your entitled to PIP or personal independence payment (google it). The government assesses the % impact the injury has taken on you and accordingly gives you a weekly payment for that injury. Now it can taken 6-8 weeks to sort out but your entitled to it and its not to be sniffed at as its between £20-130 a week and is there to assess the living impact and mobility impact of your injury. I would say to those suffering in silence research these things as your entitled.
end part 1
Month 28 - Part 2
The part people are often most interested in when they talk with me...How i am post surgery.
Medication: I wont lie, I did slip for a 6 week period back onto amitriptylene as the nerve just flared up 5-6 months ago. Caught me off guard and the only way to describe was it just switched on a pulse of pain sensation from my knee to ankle area. I would say 50% of the pain I had post surgery in the first few weeks. I did panic and think I had caused an injury. I know what increases/decreases pain now for me personally and set to work wrapping the shin area and booking in to the accupuncture. As I've stood by before 6 weeks of 1 session a week and pain was back to 5% and then 1-5% for a 3 month period then nothing again. Maybe the odd 3second electric pain in the ankle once a day but its more like a "im here recovering still" pain (as I like to think).
Pain: As above. Came, went, no reinjury the dr just said as per the randomness of nerves it was probably a diagnostic misconnect and the neurons around the nerve went into panic mode to protect the nerve again.
Sports: No contact sports but I can still run/gym. I do not lift weights over my own body weight and I focus on endurance weight training over weight gains as im not 20 any more and i feel much happier being trimmed down as i feel less load on the spine can only be a good thing.
Socially: Ive probably kicked 80% of the psychological "dont sit like that, dont bend like that" and i feel thats made a difference. I feel like im 90% equal to pre-injury and im just more knowledgable about my body so limit the stupid factors that 'could' lead to injury. I do go out with friends and go to the cinema etc so i know im fortunate in this respect.
Work: Sitting is forever the discectomy patients curse. I can sit 8hrs straight. I have done the flight to australia. The key factor with me is my body goes SIT LONG-GO STIFF-WALK IT OFF-DONT DO IT AGAIN FOR A WHILE. Thats my life now. I say stiff its temporary as in 5-10mins. Walking is my life saver and my daily cure for niggles .
As always. Any questions please just ask
Month 33 - 2 1/2+ Yr Post Surgery
Hi all, yet again the site locked me out but that's a sign I'm not updating as often now as I guess in part I want to put it all behind me. However being 3 months from the big 3 year post op mile marker I thought I would respond on here so that those who email me as well as those on here have the same information.
1) The surgery was daunting for me and those that have asked me before I just believed all avenues had been explored and there just was no other option than the MicroD surgery. - Unless medically informed to rush I think we owe it to ourselves to see if the pain reduces given time. That said, I know the pain and hate even thinking back to it. So as best you can try explore as many options as you can, and remember new ideas in medcine are coming up all the time.
2) Don't underestimate the time you need post op to recover. The body has been traumatized with the pain and equally the surgery. LET PEOPLE KNOW. I get so many emails asking "how long until i can work after surgery". I'm not a doctor but based on my own, and others in my group 12-16 weeks before you can realistically start work (saying that people have done it sooner. Again i can only reference myself and those i know). The important thing is to plan ahead. The surgery isnt the end of the road. Realize and factor in the healing process as a whole.
3) Get help. Many will certainly feel the financial impact. Recognize that PIP in the UK can be applied to those post surgery that dont recover as permanent sciatic pain is a disability. I can't comment outside the UK but I would hope there is similar. PIP isn't a significant amount but £70-200 a week is better than nothing at all. The help is varied also. Mental health comes into play for some who can't cope with the chronic pain, if your single then use family, if you have no family then tell speak regular to friends. Make sure everyone knows the surgery isn't a quick fix and you'll maybe have low days. Men are the worst as they whine about the little things but with the big problems shut down and try to cope alone. Everyone needs a shoulder through this is what I'm getting at.
4) For some it will take off 50% the pain, others 99% but its different for everyone. Some sadly will be made worse for it. Realize this isnt a lottery and this procedure is done in the UK thousands of times a year. They use a tried and tested process but they are not the end of it. You need to stay positive. The pain will rear up at some point post surgery and you will have to ride the wave, but I found it slowly went away. Some find it swiftly leaves. Don't scare yourself online by googling "relapse herniation symptoms". They do happen but are rare. The pain signals are confused so try to understand them and their causes by keeping a diary or blog as i found. It lets you assess retrospectively the pain curve you are on so you can see the improvements, and if not maybe a cause that needs removing, a lot of sitting for example.
5) I am right now 95% back to normal and 99% pain free. The 1% pain is random, very sporadic. Nothing for 7-10days then 5mins of 1/10 pain. The 95% is because i chose not to play contact sports. I guess the 5% is in my head but im happy to be myself again and don't want to take a step back.
6) The number 1 Qu I get "Knowing what you know now would you have surgery again". Simple for me "Yes". BUT its not for everyone, its taken me a lot of hard work and effort and I couldnt of done it without my friends and family. I owe my recovery as much to them as the surgeons and physios.
I hope everyone is well and you find some answers in my muddle
Month 34 - Medication
So I have been off medication for over 2 years last tuesday I had a random bout of nerve pain. I wasn't frightened or particularly bothered and decided to go take a paracetamol. In my cupboard I noted I still had tramadol and amitriptylene, oxycontene etc and thought, "well i know these work on the nerve pain, may as well use the best option". I went with the amitriptylene 1 x 25mg. I slept fine.
The next day I woke fine pain gone but oddly for the first time in 2 years I had back to back pain days. I didn't think much of it at the time and chalked it up as a random event and opted for another amitiptylene. On thursday the same again and I did have a minor pang of "oh god". On friday it returned but I decided to ride it out without meds and it subsided. Since friday I've had zero pain. Nothing.
Thinking back I had two similar events I could recall where stopping drugs resulted in the same outcome. I'm starting to wonder if certain drugs after a long period can "restart" the pain symptoms? I would be very interested in anyone with a similar experience, as I understand some drugs are addictive but is it possible for the nervous system to become an addict to the chemical release and it restarting the pain cycle.
I hope everyone is well
Well, I guess many in mainstream medicine would dismiss the following, but it's possible that your body has an internal association between the drugs the pain (like having a memory) and it doesn't know how to have one without the other, so when you take the drugs it's bringing back the memory of pain which you are then feeling. Kind of like a nocebo effect (the opposite of placebo). I wonder if some therapy such as NLP or suchlike could help you reframe the association so that the drugs are associated with no-pain instead
For those that keep messaging my email remains jimsleighty at hot mail dot com . Its not changed in the last 3years and is in this thread somewhere still should you wish to confirm I'm still me and no imposter. Thankyou for your concerns