dma
Hi, sorry for the lack of clarity.
The cracking is down the bottom of the spine i think. Its hard to pinpoint, but its done me no harm at all, im actually feeling more limber at the moment which i can only take as a positive:)
Nearly 3 weeks post op
Well I have to say that at just short of three weeks post op I already feel I am nearly back to normal. This week I started to drive (I did not have much choice there) having cleared it with both my surgeon and insurance company. It was a little uncomfortable but I have stuck to local driving only. Having had three brief flare ups in my right leg (I had a bilateral decompression) I am now pain free in both legs, and this week the post-operative pain in my back has almost gone. I am only taking one or two painkillers per day, usually at night, and will probably dispense with them altogether in the next day or so. I am sleeping better than at any other point this year, on my back and on either side, without problem. The only thing I have any problem with is sitting, which I have to limit to 15-20 minutes. Due to his taking a holiday I will not see the physiotherapist until the same week as I have my post op consultation with the surgeon, so the only advice I have had on the physiotherapy front is that gleaned from websites of hospitals such as John Radcliffe in Oxford. If people get the balance right between resting on one's back and mobilising regularly, recovery should be good. I am so glad I went ahead with my surgery in spite of my fears, and negative comments from other people who thought they were well meaning, that I would advise anyone who has been suffering from long-term sciatica to just go for it:)
physiotherapy damage
Hi All,
I've been reading this forum thread for some time now, and it's truly helpful for a lot of us out there, pretty clueless of what's really going to happen. I thought I contribute as well, and hopefully it'll be useful.
Firstly I'm 30 years old, and incurred my L5/S1 injury about 3 years ago. I had manageable back pain that would flare up every now and then after a night out, or playing football, both of which I used to do quite a lot. I injured myself after a small jump during a football 1-day 5-a-side tournament. Nobody fouled me, I didn't jump high at all, just a little jump. To cut a long story short, after visiting several orthopaedic consultants, they all concluded that the ache is not worth a surgery and gave me the box standard stretching exercises to do at home. None of them said physiotherapy is needed, as presumably they have seen many worse cases than mine. I continued life as usual, with frequent aches, that felt more like a tight buttocks and lower back requiring some stretching several times during the day.
I went a step further and tried some light Ayurveda massage in India (2 weeks, 1 hour a day), which didn't help. I do recommend trying it out, however, with a committed stay in a professional clinic for several weeks. I heard of miracles happening doing this type of treatment. I didn't take mine seriously enough to try it, and I have family in India, so it's difficult to go there just for the treatment and not visit them.
About 6 months back, I tried something more exotic. I heard about this "wonder doctor", which turned out to be an esoteric osteopath. Very expensive, but I tried out two sessions, where he told me that my legs have different lengths and there is some pelvic misalignment. Her 'corrected' all of that with some fancy movements and also did some 'energy field' related breathing. As much as I wanted to believe it, it didn't work at all.
I also had a short experience in the gym, where I met an instructor, who (a) had a similar injury (b) claimed to have resolved it and (c) is a certified medical spine masseur. He identified it to be a piriformis issue. He told me some back and ab exercises on a machine with very light weights and 15 reps x2. Every 2 weeks I went for a 30 minute massage where he relaxed the buttocks muscles. This was the only time where I felt improvement. Due to a new job, I had to move after 1 month of that experience.
About 1.5 months ago, I decided to approach the problem from a neurosurgical aspect, rather than orthopaedic. I talked to a renowned neurosurgeon in London, and he said that my herniated disc is a surgical target. He was surprised that I didn't feel any shooting pain, or similar. He also said that nothing but surgery actually helps and usually 95% are successful. In my case, however, there was a good chance that it'll either take a lot of time to heal or won't make a difference, since I've had the injury for such a long time. I asked him about physiotherapy, which he vehemently dismissed.
I went the physiotherapy way anyways. The physio was very nice and showed me some exercises I needed to do to stimulate the sciatic nerve, such as sitting up straight and lifting the affected leg until I feel discomfort. Then push the pain a little with a foot flex.
She also pressed down on my lumber spine whilst lying down. It felt weird and good in a way. However, after 2 sessions and a long car ride, my back exacerbated to the extent that I could not walk or sit. I had to lie on the bed 23 out of 24 hours, working from home. The shooting pain down the leg was incredible and something I never experienced before. I read about it, when researching this, but I always wondered about it, as I never had it. And after physio I had it finally.
I managed to schedule a microdiscectomy within 3 weeks, as I was a private patient, and I really felt bad for all the people who have to wait such a long time on NHS. I think the longer you wait at this pain level, the more irreversible damage is caused to the nerve.
The surgery was a success, and I was walking on day 1 after the operation and within 1 week I was almost back to normal. The improvement was so rapid and drastic that I feared that I could get a bit careless about the recovery.
After 3 weeks now, my buttocks is tightening, as it was before the physiotherapy accident. After reading some more, I realised that I probably suffer from piriformis syndrome, whereby a pear-shaped muscle in the buttocks, around which the sciatica passes and (in some cases penetrates through), tightens. That gym instructor identified and treated it correctly back then, I believe.
I heard stretching the muscle helps, which I have done. But after the stretches the back always feels more tender and fragile and I fear getting the same results as after the physiotherapy. So I am very wary of doing any more stretching.
If you have any similar experience, please share, and let us know if you found a solution. Im also very interested about the acupuncture treatment, although the long needle option seems a bit dangerous (reaching the sciatic nerve). Any input would be very much appreciated.
Good luck to you all in your recovery!
CinnamonPanda
Hi there,
glad to hear your benefiting from the surgery and on a speedy road to recovery.
The stretching thing is a real issue, for me, if i am lazy and do limited stretching and maybe slouch a lot then i remember feeling really good with no stiffness or pain. If i over did the stretching i'd wake like an old man. Its really down to time. I cant now touch my toes which i could pre surgery. If i push it = stiffness the next day. So now i just dont try the over extending stretches and instead to strengthening exercises in the gym.
I have a raft of stretches i can email you if you want but it sounds like you are getting a wide variety of experiences to aide your choices on recovery. Personally i would say so soon after surgery DONT over stretch in the early days. Take it easy in the early days and step it up gradually.
As for the acupuncture I had the long needle 16 times. It 'feels' like they touch it but they specificially go either side of it. The S1 is a very very robust nerve. The people that practise it should be firstly very experienced acupuncture practitioners so have the basics down to a fine art. The format they use will be in the early sessions to go well wide of the mark (nerve), over sessions they will move closer. Honestly, ive posted it often since i had it but those sessions literally removed the piriformis butt pain. It was also relieving as I went in sceptic and came out utterly amazed. I would say even if its 2-4 sessions when they go well wide of it you should get a real benefit.
Any Qu's please just ask.
Oh and for the runners out there, i ran 44miles last saturday and have a 100mile race in feb. Im not bragging, i just want people to see that we can recover from this (with a large serving of luck and effort).
acupuncture
Hi Microsuccess,
Thanks for the prompt response, it's really great to hear how well you've recovered. I'm definitely taking it easy for now, and sticking to my occasional planks and simple stretches.
Again, acupuncture - will it resolve the issue, or is it going to be a longterm treatment. You said 16x, which I think is a lot, unless you think you won't need it any more.
My doctor also said that I should do Pilates for the rest of my life, once I'm fully recovered.
For me the accupuncture removed 90% the uncomfortable pain after 6 sessions. I kept going but in all honesty I dont think i needed it after the 6th. You can gauge it yourself i.e. I felt the marble ball in my glute release on the 4/5th session. For me it went:
Session 1-2: slightly painful during the needling. Didnt aggrevate anything
Session 3: I felt more ability to stretch before the glute pain came on
session 4-5: The marble went from feeling spherical to coin shaped in my glute
Session 6: The coin shaped feeling shrank
Its really hard to describe but i literally felt the day after each session that the 'ball of pain' changed shape then reduced in size. I would say once a week for maybe a few minutes i get what i consider the head of a needle there but its less of a pain and more a reminder. What I would say is this stuffs seemingly medically verified to work and i was a none believer. If you dont feel some benfit within 2-3 sessions I'd leave it a while. I was told the treatments prefered for people further down the line that just have this as their remaining issue.
Pilates i've heard does keep you more flexible. For me I prefer like you the planks and squats and thats done me no harm. I try to fit in 1-2 sessions of gym work a week now and if i miss 1-2 weeks im no worse for it. I do have a friend they wont do the surgery for and he does say the pilates has a positive effect for him.
Hope this helps
Good Acupuncture in London
That's great! Does anyone know of a good acupuncturist in London?
Hi everyone. I have been lurking here for a while and want to say thanks for all the helpful posts. I am posting to get information for my husband. His L5/S1 disk ruptured around April 1, causing immense pain and numbness. After all the usual routes (shots, PT, etc) failed, he went in for a microdisectomy on July 9. The first 2 weeks were great, but then the nerve pain slowly creeped back in. Numbness resolved immediately and never returned thank goodness. His flexibility suffered greatly and I still put his shoes and socks on 4 months later. He can do it, but it is hard for him. He started back up at work at 5 weeks, working 12 hour days teaching and coaching after school. He did PT from late August until late October, where they released him. They said he had all the exercises and could do them on his own, which he does.
I had expected him to be better by now. We are thankful he can work (long hours on his feet too) and sit down in a restaurant for a meal. However, he experiences what he calls "nerve pain" (not muscle pain) nearly daily. It starts out from about a 0-1 on the pain scale in the morning, and creeps up to a 2-3 by the evening--going from his butt to his hamstring. He has to lay down after work. He also has these "flare ups" where it might start out as a 2 in the morning and get to a 4 in the evening. These usually last a week but when they go away he still gets that 1-3 pain level throughout the day, sometimes it is a 0. I am writing to see if his progress is normal.
I called the doctor's office and the PA was very short with me. Before I could explain his pain, she just told me to come in and have him re-imaged. This shocked me. I guess I thought she would say it was healing pain. Then she suggested a Medrol pack first. My husband won't take it (side effects) and wants to wait and see if he gets better before getting another MRI. Maybe he is afraid of what it will say, I don't know.
Do you think this type of pain is normal at this point, or do you think he has reherniated/has scar tissue? We recently had a friend teach him a "nerve flossing" exercise, which his PT never suggested. It caused pain, but we are wondering if he should keep them up? Should he take the Medrol?
Any input is appreciated...
Update
It's been a while since I updated.
Well I have had a few ups and downs. A couple of scares (it is so hard not to constantly worry about your back once you have had the op) but they have all sorted themselves out.
I was given the go ahead from my surgeon and physio to start "real" exercise recently so have now got a personal trainer. We have mainly been working on my core strength but it just feels soooo good to be moving again.
I actually feel better nerve wise when I have done some exercise than when I havn't odd? or not?
I have even done some running like Micro. I have started with up hill slow jogging again no problems, My PT is great and understands what I can and can't do. I still keep up with my stretches but only 4 times a week now.
Keep with it guys. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Will post back again soon.
18 Months - Post Op Pull ups
Hi everyone,
Over the last month a friend advised me if I struggled with situps (or in my case i just hate the thought they may undo anything) then I should contemplate pullups, both over and under arm. I bought a pull up bar and fitted it in my doorway into the frontroom and for the last 4 weeks I've been doing between 100-150 every day and for the first time since I can remember I actually feel very strong in the stomach region. Trust me when I say I have always been terrible at these, I struggled to do 5-10 for the first 2 weeks but as of this morning I did 32 under arm and 26 over arm in one go.
Now i think for those in the immediate months after surgery this may be a bad idea but for those in the post 8month+ I was wondering if anyone else had drawn benefit from swapping crunches for pullups.
I can't really comment on much else as I now sleep as pre-pain and can do everything with the exception of pushing weight above my head. That makes me stiff in the minutes afterwards. The only pain I would say is best described as 'fleeting'. It jumps in randomly, its not a show stopper and i feel like my brain just goes 'oh nerve pain, oh its gone'. I suppose best described as a tiny electrical surge in my glutes. I still keep up a good training regime and definately feel i benefit from not getting lax in that respect.
Runners
N
48
S
Wow!! 48 miles, running - fantastic :D. I couldn't contemplate running at all at the moment :(. Well done - and do look after yourself 😉
Hey Micro,, Great job on 48 miles! I could never run so I wouldn't even think of trying
Things are going okay for me. I still have a lot of trouble with muscle fatigue. The nerve damage done to the glutes, quads and hams gives me a hard time as these are major stabilizers. As a result of them not engaging properly the my low back muscles are still constantly engaged. The core is still weak also.
Some advice for others post op...don't gain weight! I have gained a lot which is impacting my recovery also. Overall though I am really good. It is hard to believe 9 months have gone by since my surgery.
I wish all of you a healthy Christmas. 2013 has been tough for all of us so I wish you all great health and recovery for 2014
Month 19
Hello Everyone and hope you've all had a good christmas,
So the months are rolling on now and unlike last year I've noted considerable difference in my nerve pain etc. So I thought I would do a small comparative:
Pre surgery: As those who know, intolerable pain, significant issues sleeping, inability to walk prolonged periods. Required strict drugs regime. The pain for me was in my left leg only for the full length, very minimal backpain. I couldnt do very much and physio exercises worsened my pain/mobility.
Beneficial advice pre-surgery: Try the nerve root block. Try accupuncture. Allow time. When sleeping put a cushion between legs or if mattress firm enough lay on stomach. Ask the neurosurgeon for advice.
Immediately after surgery: Significant reduction in pain in the left leg, better ability to sleep, ability to walk (increasing distance over time). Reducing drug regime.
Beneficial advice: Star on a treadmill quite flat. Dont increase speed but increase gradient over time. Try accupuncture. Dont sit for prolonged periods. Ask employer to understand this is not an '8 week fix' if they want you back fulltime with no further repercussions its nearer 3 months to see the gains. Get a slendertone to help the core muscles stay strong. Use ice 2-3 times a day for the first 2 months to help the swelling around the incision. Get a yoga cushion if you sit at work a lot. DONT RUSH BACK TO WORK if possible. Assess pre surgery implications of no salary for the time your going to be off (little can be done here as surgery timings out of your control, its just something to think about). Talk to family, gf/bf and friends about how you feel. Talking can be your saviour.
12-19 Month: SHOULD BE up and running, literally. I feel the longer time you get to recover = the better you set yourself up for success. Gym work, running, cycling should improve. DONT place stress through the spine with very heavy weight e.g. i weigh 82kg, if i squat 60-80kg im fine but get slight stiffness. Over 80kg = a lot of stiffness. Pain near to gone 24/7. Weird little things niggle such as standing on a train or still for 5-6hrs. I've run for over 10hrs and had zero pain and minimal stiffness as a point.
Beneficial advice: STICK TO PHYSICAL TRAINING REGIME. If you slack for over 1month you will feel increased niggles. Pull ups work the core and arms. Dont bulk up massively for the guys, unless you do it all over. The quads and glutes are key
I know this isnt much but please as always if you need help with advice then just ask. Hope you all have a good new year.