Advice please!

Your pain can come from degenerated discs L4-5 L3-L4

Hello Mikeyr01.

Yes, I believe your suspicions are correct, the Specialist is almost certainly fobbing you off!!

Although the L 4/5 and L3/4 are described as not resulting in any significant neurological compromise 'and' not obviously resulting in a significant neurological compromise, I believe that these descriptions are flawed. I truly believe that you need a second opinion!

If the theca (sheath) surrounding the spinal column is noted as being encroached upon, while you are lying down in an MRI scanner, then it is totally reasonable to suppose, that under normal loading (standing up), then this ‘encroachment’ could well become a ‘compression’ of the Theca, and very possibly, of the spinal strands themselves. His dismissal of your description of your areas of pain, and of the MRI images themselves, is nothing short of crass!
(I assume that you have not undergone a dynamic (standing) MRI SCAN?)
I recommend that you try to find one in your area, pay privately if you can afford to (usually between £200- £600) Dynamic X-rays are also preferable.

Your symptoms are typical of an L 4/5 (sciatica) level nerve strand impingement, I know, I had the car accident, I went there, and I bought the t-shirt!! My Consultants also told me that my L5/S1 level lumber disc had a small bulge, a minor bulge, an insignificant bulge and it could not be causing any pain! After an operation to clear my L4/5 lateral recess impingement of my sciatic nerve root, it turned out that this insignificant bulge was causing me severe pains and was leaking disc (nucleus) material, which is also impinging my nerve strands, and causing pain!

Are you able to request a referral to a Spinal Surgeon of your choosing? Can you afford to go private? If you are, make sure you research the Surgeons in great detail, ask the HP forum members who are living in your area for recommendations.

Regarding the S I joint issue, ask your Chiropractor or Osteopath to specifically check out the rotation, and other directional movements of the S I joint, my Osteopath was great at dispelling my concerns about my S I.

All the Best

SPINELF

Hi SpineElf,

No I have not had a standing or seated MRI scan and I am almost certain that this would hi light alot more issues where the nerves are concerned.

Do you know if the NHS offers this atall? I personally cannot afford a private one but wonder if I could get one through my legal cover after the car accident.

Thanks

Hi SpineElf,

No I have not had a standing or seated MRI scan and I am almost certain that this would hi light alot more issues where the nerves are concerned.

Do you know if the NHS offers this atall? I personally cannot afford a private one but wonder if I could get one through my legal cover after the car accident.

Thanks

Is the case ongoing? Everyone leapt on the fact that I had had a minor shunt in a car, saying they could charge the other driver's insurance for everything, so ask them. I replied to the NHS part on the other thread 🙂

Hi Cas,

thank you for both of your replies.

Yes it is still ongoing. It happened in feb and I have been off work ever since. I had 5 osteopath sessions and so far had about 18 chiropractic sessions and still no better. Jut waiting for nhs physio at the moment.

I am £4000 out of pocket in loss of earnings and medical expenses and yet to receive a penny from the other driver so very much doubt that I would be able to claim for a different mri scan.

Hi SpineElf, No I have not had a standing or seated MRI scan and I am almost certain that this would hi light alot more issues where the nerves are concerned. Do you know if the NHS offers this atall? I personally cannot afford a private one but wonder if I could get one through my legal cover after the car accident.

Thanks

Hi Mikey, SORRY FOR THE DELAY!

I have found only 2 DYNAMIC LOAD BEARING MRI SCANNERS in the UK;
London - The London upright MRI clinic (a Leeds clinic opening soon)
Scotland - Aberdeen University.

The cost of the London scans are around £900 - 1 part, £1300 - 2 parts,
and £1500 - 3 parts.

If you can make the case that standard MRI's are not showing an accurate image that Surgeons can use, you may be able to push your insurance for it. You will still need to be referred by a GP or Surgeon.

Best of luck and best wishes.

SPINELF

Hi all,

update from below.

I have had a lot of physio and nothing has worked still. the only thing I feel that helps is being active.

The bottom of my back and leg still feels very weak and my back muscles constantly tighten up, especially when sitting down. I had a medical through my car insurance with a pain management specialist called dr gauci who recommended facet joint injections but my gp says I am very unlikely to get them because of my mri results. Can anybody tell me if my mri results that i listed warrant getting these injections or not?

I was also asked today whether feeling unhappy is causing my back pain. That showed me how serious my gp is taking it.

thanks

Hiya Mikey.

I'm sorry you are not feeling any better.

Reading your last paragraph Mikey, makes me so angry!! He is a *** GP, he should *** well know mental issues 'do not cause' disc based nerve compressions and arthritic spinal degeneration!! This graphically shows how ignorant GP's are about spinal treatments in general! It also explains why GP's simply refer patients in to a 'standard system' of diagnosis and treatment, no matter how much their symptoms may vary between each different patients! And we are paying for this rubbish service!! It's Outragous!!

I can certainly agree with your keeping active comment, it is so important to keep as active as your condition will allow.

Your MRI results and (in particular) your Specialist's comments, would absolutely warrent an investigative facet joint, nerve root block or epidural injection.
The main reason for giving such injections is to find 'why' you are in such pain, as you say in your 1st post Mikey, the Specialist 'could not see why' you were experiencing so much pain, therefore the decision to give you an injection would be a no brainer!

If they give you an injection Mikey, lets say in or around the SI joint, and the pain completely goes away, there is their location indicator, simples! It would also give you restbite from your suffering and give you hope for the future which in turn will definately improve your unhappyness! so you GP should be happy too!! LOL.

Are you getting any financial support or recompense from the insurer Mikey?

It sounds as if you are still being 'fobbed off' by both your GP and the insurance people
Mikey! They seem 'hell bent' on saving money and improving their pensions!!

Best wishes

SPINELF

Hi Spinelf,

thanks for the reply.

My legal company have said that if I cannot get the treatment recommeneded by the specialist on the nhs, they maybe able to get the other drivers insurance to pay for it. I want to go to the nhs first incase the other side say i have claimed unreasonable costs. atleast if the nhs say no then i have tried the free route first.

From my physios point of view he doesnt think my symptoms can be helped by injections as his take on my results is that it would not be disc related, more muscular. I dont know whether this is right or whether it is just money saving.

I have got a fuctional restoration programme meeting today so will hopefully be able to speak to my physio then and see what he makes of the results.

You are very welcome mikey!

Your Physio's objection to recommending a facet joint injection, seems to be based upon the fact that your MRI scan reports that there is 'no physical contact' between the disc and the nerve, and whislt that is not an unethical point to stand on, he is 'otherwise totally clueless' as to what the root cause of your pains and disabilities are.
Mucsular problems like reactive and protective spasms, frequently occur as a direct
consequence of underlying issues like disc impingements of nerve stands. What your Physio seems to be focusing on, are your symptoms not the cause!

Furthermmore, I think the Physios decision 'to go against' the Specialist's reccomendation 'to explore the causational root' is time wasting and totally negative!
I think you could well be right about the Physios position!

Miley, Does your GP go along with the Physios stance or the recommendation of the Specialist? Try to get him on the Specalists side, your GP can aurthorise a referral for injections!

I understand your point about going through the NHS root first, but please be aware, from my personnal experience, insurence companies work very slowly, so don't hang on for the NHS to offer you a miricle cure, get your insurance company to at least start talks with the othersides insurance company, to see if the will play ball.

Best of luck with your function restoration programme today Mikey!

SPINELF