Autism and Vitamin D3

RE: Autism and Vitamin D3

Interesting, just a few thoughts .......... 😀

Autism is now epidemic in the industrialized world. If you know an affected family, you know the tragedy of autism.

No one knows what causes autism. (There are various types, some of which have known causes)
Why has it increased so dramatically in the last 20 years? (Several possibilities - stress being just one of them).
How could it increase if it is a genetic disease? As it has now reached "epidemic" level,itcan't be totally down togenetics, although in some cases it mightbe a major factor.
Why is one identical twin severely affected and the other not? Could be because one twin had a better supply of nourishment in the womb? One had a more traumatic birth?
Why are boys so much more likely to get it than girls? For boys, thought to be possibly connected with testosterone surges at a specific time in the womb, and after birth (can't remember the times).
Why is it more common in Blacks?(In general? or in the industrialised world?)
Why do autistic children have larger heads? Possibly due to neurons not pruning properly?
Why can't they excrete heavy metals? Detoxification playing second fiddle to "flight or fright" ? Metabolic disruption to the enzyme system that supports detoxification?
Why is autism less common closer to the equator? (UV is the detoxification wavelength?)
Why do symptoms first appear around the age of weaning? (Not always the case -they are sometimesnoticed at birth, but weaningmaybe the time for gut problems,such as leaky gut etc)
Why do certain drugs increase the risk? (Toxic side effects? chemical stress?)
Why are seizures so common in autism? (several metabolic possibilities)
Why do autistic children have frequent infections? (1 possibility - Immune function suppressed due to stress?)
Why do mothers who consume seafood during their pregnancy have a reduced risk of having an autistic child? (Protein and healthy fat, minerals etc etc? Contributes to their own metabolic balance, which then has a beneficial effect on the foetus?)
Why do a few autistic children seem to get better? (Because the individual "causes" are removed? (as opposed to the one size fits all theory).
Why do multivitamins seem to help? (Improves metabolic function, reduces the "metabolic stress" aspect that can be contributing to symptoms).

We don't know any of the answers to these questions. We don't know how to prevent autism, or how to treat it.
(If we think of autism as a conditionhavingone cause, then maybe. But if "autism" is the result of many different possible factors, different to eachindividual child then there are lots of possibilities - vitamin D supplementation being one of them).

Now a single theory answers all these questions. Furthermore, the theory implies simple prevention and raises, at least the possibility, of treatment.It doesn't to me. Not every child who is autistic is vitamin D deficient and if they are is it intake or poor absorption or assimilation? It raises the possibility of treatment for one possiblestrandof an individual child'ssymptom "tapestry", in thosefamilies for whom this is a factor.

RE: Autism and Vitamin D3

I am pleased to read your intelligent response to the points raised.

However, as I am sure you are aware, the article at The Vitamin D council website provided links to peer reviewed research to support the arguments that were put forward. I appreciate it isn't the policy of this site to expect people to back up their "opinions" with evidence but as far as I am concerned I prefer to be able to check where a person is getting their information from and the sources for the evidence they are relying on.

I think you haven't read through all the 11 pages as carefully as you might. If you did you may have noticed the section "In 2007, Dr. Kalueff, now at the National Institutes of Mental Health, reviewed the nootropic (brain?enhancing) properties of vitamin D in even more detail and concluded that the scientific data stress the importance of the mother having enough vitamin D while she is pregnant and the child having enough vitamin D after birth for "normal brain functioning." There is no doubt vitamin D affects the brain, and does so profoundly" where it is clear that Dr Cannell is thinking that the initial damage, or predisposition to acquire autism, is done before birth as a result of the mothers Vitamin D status.

I'm sure you are aware that most UK people are Vitamin d insufficient.

Google Hypovitaminosis D in British adults at age 45 yr and you will see that most people here have low Vit d status the whole year.If most UK adults have insufficient status then it is likely that most children have a similar status. Your point "in thosefamilies for whom this is a factor" hits the nail on the head.

The research on Vitamin D status in fact used 75nmol/L as the marker of Vitamin D insufficiency. In actual fact damage to bodily functions can be measured at 80nmol/L but Google Circulating Vitamin D3 and 25-hydroxyvitamin D in Humans: An Important Tool to Define Adequate Nutritional Vitamin D Status shows that to obtain the optimal relationship between relationship between circulating vitamin D and 25(OH)D a maternal intake of 6,400 IU vitamin D3/day, was necessary to achieve that sat us.

Wearing ordinary clothes and working outdoors all day everyday in Omaha (same lat Rome) raised 2800iu daily on average.
The body needs between 3000 and 5000iu daily.
Food sources (milk isn't fortified in the UK) can only provide around 400iu daily.
Most pregnant women do not spend 20-40 sunbathing nude every day.
Prenatal vitamins containonly 200iu D3 and indeed there are UK suppliers still using vit d2 which isn't absorbed as well and therefore may not be the least bit effective.

If you can explain how UK mothers regularly obtain optimal amounts of Vitamin D (between 3000 and 6400iu daily)then I may accept your proposition that only a proportion of autistic babies are born Vitamin D insufficient but until you can demonstrate that most UK mothers have over the minimum of 100nmol/L vit d I remain of the opinion that Vitamin D insufficiency it probably the cause of most autism.

It's simple and cheap to ensure your Vitamin D status remains high. All you need to do is use a sufficiently high strength Vit d3 supplement orbetween now and Augustspend 20-40 minutes at midday sunbathing laying down (more skin in direct line of sun) preferably nude or near to (gets those bits least tanned and most efficient at creating Vit d exposed) regularly (at least 3 times a week). The limited nature of sunbathing sessions is important as if you stay out too long the vitamin D on the surface of your skin gets converted to products your body cannot absorb and so staying out until you go red is pointless as not only does sunburn lead to skin cancer but all the vit d you've made has been overcooked.

If you stay in the UK then from September to March you will need to supplement at an effective strength. The thread [link= http://www.h

RE: Autism and Vitamin D3

ORIGINAL: tedhutchinson

However, as I am sure you are aware, the article at The Vitamin D council website provided links to peer reviewed research to support the arguments that were put forward. I appreciate it isn't the policy of this site to expect people to back up their "opinions" with evidence but as far as I am concerned I prefer to be able to check where a person is getting their information from and the sources for the evidence they are relying on.

I consider myself knowlegable, not an expert, but my views are based partially on extensive reading (books such as "The Biology of the Autistic Spectrums" ISBN 1-898-68322-0) on the biochemistry, endocrinology , immunology, brain imaging of certain types of autism etc). I have also attended several CPD seminars at BIBIC (British Inst. Brain Injured Children)on autism, including aspergers syndrome, and ADD/ADHD.

I am also a parent of a child who, at the age of 2 developed symptoms on the autistic spectrum.I won't go into the whole story, and we didn't opt for a conventional diagnosis, but symptoms included that he was light sensitive, he hated being outside,and he hadextensive nutritional problems because of food phobia which meant that he was certainly vitamin d deficient.

I believe that any clinically detectable vitamin d deficiencywas, in his case,a consequence ofhis autistic symptoms, not the cause of it. In my son's individual case the major contributing factor was fluoride toxicity. By removing the major "cause" he became less light sensitive and started playing outside, got natural daylight which improved his mood, his sleep pattern, vitamin d statusetc. His diet improved naturally.

Sunlight is not only needed by the body for the production of vitamin d. It has far reaching effects on the whole system. (Source various books on light therapy includingLight: Medicine of the Future by Jacob Libermann). Vitamin d supplementation may or may not help some autistic children, but if its actually asunlight deficiency that is part of the problem, (whether to the pregnant woman, or to a child) thenvitamin d supplementation might not be thefirst treatment choice.To some children supplementation is an impossibility if there is any food phobia issues.

"I'm sure you are aware that most UK people are Vitamin d insufficient. "

"If you can explain how UK mothers regularly obtain optimal amounts of Vitamin D (between 3000 and 6400iu daily)then I may accept your proposition that only a proportion of autistic babies are born Vitamin D insufficient but until you can demonstrate that most UK mothers have over the minimum of 100nmol/L vit d I remain of the opinion that Vitamin D insufficiency it probably the cause of most autism."

If the majority of UK pregnant womenhave difficulty in getting sufficient vitamin D, then if vitamin d deficiency was the cause of most autism, then most children would be born autistic.With the boy/girl ratio in autism, does a woman need a higher intake of vitamin d during pregnancy if she is expecting a boy?

Autistic children have siblingsthat have presumably had similar exposure to sunlight, similar diet, the child maybe even has a twin that shared the womb who is unaffected, so why would vitamin d deficiency only affect one to the extent of causing autism, leaving the other unaffected?

The controversy surrounding the causes of autism keeps going. Some claimmercury from vaccinations - yet not all autistic children have been vaccinated. I don't claim fluoride is the cause of autism, because not allautistic children live in fluoridatedwater areas, or use fluoride toothpaste. There's the opoid theory -yet not all children have leaky gut syndrome.&nbsp

RE: Autism and Vitamin D3

symptoms included that he was light sensitive, he hated being outside,and he hadextensive nutritional problems because of food phobia which meant that he was certainly vitamin d deficient.

Other readers experiencing similar problems may find it helpful to know the following.
Vitamin D3 is fat soluble. This means if you buy the capsule forms from Links on The Vitamin D Council Website, these capsules can be slid apart and the contents dropped into some oil, stirred round till dissolved and then used in baking, cooking, or as a massage oil.
So if you bought 50,000iu capsules and make biscuits incorporating one 50,000iu capsule you would have to make sure you mixed the dough thoroughly and then count the total number of biscuits and work out roughly how many iu are now in each biscuit so you can limit intake to between 2000 & 4000iu daily depending on whether you are wanting to maintain or raise Vit d status.
If you used the 5000iu capsules these could be dropped into massage oil and massaged into the skin, your skin is the normal method of making, absorbing vit d3 so no problems there.
A home sun tan bed is another possible alternative strategy, this would be better than commercial suntan palours as you could ensure you had UVB tubes and also could monitor usage to ensure they didn't exceed their useful UVB output limit.

I believe that any clinically detectable vitamin d deficiencywas, in his case,a consequence ofhis autistic symptoms, not the cause of it. In my son's individual case the major contributing factor was fluoride toxicity. By removing the major "cause" he became less light sensitive and started playing outside, got natural daylight which improved his mood, his sleep pattern, vitamin d statusetc. His diet improved naturally.

the amount of Vitamin D from diet really is trivial compared to how much is needed andhow much can be obtained from laying naked in the sun. I'm afraidwhile wearing normal clothes and standing outside the total intake (measured in outdoor workersOmaha, level with Rome) average only 2800iu daily so even working all day every day outdoors left these workmen insufficientstatus in Winter.

Sunlight is not only needed by the body for the production of vitamin d. It has far reaching effects on the whole system. (Source various books on light therapy includingLight: Medicine of the Future by Jacob Libermann). Vitamin d supplementation may or may not help some autistic children, but if its actually asunlight deficiency that is part of the problem, (whether to the pregnant woman, or to a child) thenvitamin d supplementation might not be thefirst treatment choice.To some children supplementation is an impossibility if there is any food phobia issues.

I agree that exposing the skin to sunlight is the best option, there is more to sun than simply vitamin d synthesis and the skin is the body's largest peripheral endocrine organ and controls far more than simply the synthesis of Vitamin d3. That said no one can expect brains to function optimally without sufficient Vitamin D3 and unless at least 4000iu/daily are accessible (by totaling all inputs fromsun, diet, supplement sources)
"I'm sure you are aware that most UK people are Vitamin d insufficient. "

If the majority of UK pregnant womenhave difficulty in getting sufficient vitamin D, then if vitamin d deficiency was the cause of most autism, then most children would be born autistic.With the boy/girl ratio in autism, does a woman need a higher intake of vitamin d during pregnancy if she is expecting a boy?

I disagree, We are talkingof a range of insufficiency from just below 75 to zero vitamin d status. Thosewith near tozero will be most vulnerable butas you have previously pointed out there is a spectrum of autistictype disorders and thes

RE: Autism and Vitamin D3

A biscuit recipe such as you describe may be unsuitable for some autistic children for reasons other than the vitamin D. It would not have got past my son’s “safe” list anyway, but for some the ingredients might cause temporary worsening of autistic symptoms, diarrhoea, constipation etc.

Massage is a definite no for some autistic children anyway, and for vitamin d (or any other nutrient) to do its work, however it gets into the body, it relies on the rest of the metabolic chain to be functioning.

A home sun tan bed treatment for an autistic child would also not be recommended without medical advice – and the practicalities of parents trying to do such a treatment safely make this an unlikely option.

As for the drop in vitamin d status in the last 20 years or so:

In Victorian times for example the dress customs of the time meant that women were covered up, large segments of the population, including children, worked long hours in factories etc etc. Yet autism is a relatively new phenomena.

For centuries, many societies’ cultures has included the women covering up completely. If low vitamin d levelsare the cause of autism, then we should have seen an epidemica long time ago.

What is different is that we now have the obsession for low fat dieting (bearing in mind vitamin d is fat soluble) and a fear of cholesterol particularly.The myths of the low fat diet and the dangers of cholesterol are now slowly changing. The body can make vitamin d from cholesterol (“our body makes vitamin d, the sunshine vitamin that regulates calcium and phosphorus metabolism, from cholesterol” – Udo Erasmus, Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill) which is presumably why cultures in the arctic eating a high fat diet, in the darkness for a large part of the year, haven’t a history of an epidemic of autism).

Then there is now the "damaged fats" which the body cannot utilise properly which mayhave more of a bearing than vitamin d intake itself. In the past there wasn't the multiple vaccination programmes, the pesticides, MSG, aspartame, colourings additives etc etc. Vitamin D assimilation is one possible metabolic route that might be affected for any number of reasons, but supplementing with high doses of vitamin d when the body maybe cannot do much with it isn’t necessarily the answer for a child with autism.

If girls didn't get autism, the theory about the different effects of estrogen and testosterone on vitamin d metabolismmightsubstantiate the vitamin d deficiency theory asthe cause of autism. But girls do get autism, and when they do, theycan haveworse symptoms. Girls have a different metabolism when it comes to fats, (because of estrogen) so maybe that is a protective factor, which – if that metabolic protective pathway is disrupted – means that they then have worse symptoms. There are any number of possibilities. But as cholesterol makes the sex hormones, maybe its cholesterol, and not vitamin d, that the researchers should be looking at.

I’m sure there have been cases where one monozygotic twin has autism, the other not, so the lesion theory isn’t supported in all cases, maybe some.

Not all autistic children are vaccine damaged, many are unvaccinated.

Most theories will find some children who fit the hypothesis, but most studies focus on one thing. I’m afraid that vitamin d deficiency joins the ranks of being one of the potential factors in autism, along with mercury, vaccinations, hypoadrenia etc.

“The point I want readers to understand is that using Vitamin D [link= http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/77/1/204 ]at the level the body actually uses[/link] is absolutely[link= http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/1/6 ] totally safe and risk free[/link].” Bearing in mind this

RE: Autism and Vitamin D3

biscuit recipe such as you describe may be unsuitable for some autistic children for reasons other than the vitamin D. It would not have got past my son's "safe” list anyway, but for some the ingredients might cause temporary worsening of autistic symptoms, diarrhoea, constipation etc.

The biscuit suggestions was merely an example. Most people would be glad to know that cooking with Vit d3 does not adversely affect it's impact on the system. So incorportating the contents of a high strength Vit d 3 capsule into a meal which uses oil or other fat is a simply and effective way of raising status. We know from [link= http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/1/6 ] span style="color:#551a8b">Risk assessment for vitamin D -- Hathcock et al. 85 (1): 6 .[/link]that it is perfectly safe below 10,000iu/daily, We know you would need to exceed this daily safe upper limit for more than 365 days for there to be any easily reversible contraindications so Nothing Ventured nothing gained and at £20 for 100 x 50,000iu capsules it is not expensive. You would only have to use one of these capsules every other week to ensure an intake of 3500iu/d.

Massage is a definite no for some autistic children anyway, and for vitamin d (or any other nutrient) to do its work, however it gets into the body, it relies on the rest of the metabolic chain to be functioning.

Again this is a suggestion that may/maynot be applicable. But I am sure you are aware many people are not aware that the skin is a useful way of absorbing transdermally useful substances. I bet most don't know that the rather noxious substances found in most sunscreens can be detected in their urine within a few hours. You should only put on your skin substances you are prepared to eat for this very reason. Of course some people are Vitamin D insufficient despite adequate sun exposure but it's a case of nothing ventured nothing gained. The 5000iu capsules work out at £13 for 250 so around 5p each. I don't think most readers here will lose any sleep over a 5p wasted investment. If your child will accept a massage, with or without a vitamin d content, then it's a useful strategy that may be useful. Most people get their Vit d from skin synthesis so for the majority of the population this is a viable and useful way of ensuring it's available.

A home sun tan bed treatment for an autistic child would also not be recommended without medical advice – and the practicalities of parents trying to do such a treatment safely make this an unlikely option.

I would be interested to read any evidence you have for your above comment. Perhaps if you read UV ADVANTAGE by the much honoured Dr. Michael Holick you would understand that regular limited exposure to sunlamps is far healthier than remaining Vitamin d insufficient.

In Victorian times for example the dress customs of the time meant that women were covered up, large segments of the population, including children, worked long hours in factories etc etc. Yet autism is a relatively new phenomena.

For centuries, many societies' cultures has included the women covering up completely. If low vitamin d levelsare the cause of autism, then we should have seen an epidemica long time ago.

But in those days the infant mortality rate was much higher. [link= http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/health/autism/vit-D-deficiency-and-autism.shtml#hd1 ]Does vitamin D explain autism's frequent infections?[/link]Haven't you sufficient common sense to appreciate what would have happened to those more prone to pneumonia and bronchiolitis in past eras?

I don't think the rest of your post bears logical scrutiny. If you could back up some of your claims with reference to online sources then maybe I'd check them over but anyone who hasn't yet sussed out that for every single skin cancer death 30 people die from cancers that thrive in vitamin d depleted bodies hasn't got their priorities right. If we just look at cancer

RE: Autism and Vitamin D3

"Haven't you sufficient common sense to appreciate what would have happened to those more prone to pneumonia and bronchiolitis in past eras?"

What shred of evidence have youthat there has been, throughout recorded and unrecorded history, in all cultures, a high incidence of autism but they all died of pneumonia and bronchitis because of their alleged vitamin d deficiency ????

I have sufficient common sense to appreciate that whether or not peopledidsuccumb to pneumonia and bronchiolitis, they were not all autistic. Autism is not justabout vitamin d. Your original post claimed it was, "Now a single theory answers all these questions" which you haven't substantiated.

Istated in my previous posting "high doses of vitamin d supplementation should not be done without extensive further research or advice from a professional who has experience in working with the biochemistry of autism."

The sunbed use for an autistic child not recommended "without medical advice" is also connected with the safety issues of using the equipment, the sensory issues, etc i.e. that are specifically related to autism.

My conscience is clear thank you. When it comes to children with autism, it is misguided to suggest that someone doessome of the things you have suggested, without professional advice, just because its cheap. Whatever your knowledge about vitamin d, with respect, your knowledge about the autistic spectrumappears to besomewhat more limited. What direct experience have you had of treating children on the autistic spectrum with vitamin D alone, and what were the observable benefits to the child?

I had thought your posting was originally intended to spark lively debate. Whatever your views on the cancer rates and vitamin d, thisis asection of the healthypages forum specifically related to autism.

However, if you had just wished to spout your blinkered views on vitamin d being the cause of autism as being the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, without any debate, then maybe you should have made that clearer in the original post, or found somewhere more appropriate to put it.

RE: Autism and Vitamin D3

What shred of evidence have youthat there has been, throughout recorded and unrecorded history, in all cultures, a high incidence of autism but they all died of pneumonia and bronchitis because of their alleged vitamin d deficiency ?

As Autism was first recognised in 1943 expecting a detailed record of autism before that date is somewhat naive, even for you.
Oh dear, you do make me laugh.
What do you expect would happen to the weakest children most vulnerable to infection at a time when 150 out of every 1000kids died before age 5?
You don't need evidence just common sense, with 150 out of every 1000 children dying before the age of 5 which do you think would be most vulnerable?
Those most prone to infection or those [link= http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20061111/bob9.asp ]least prone to infection[/link], those with the[link= http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=51913 ] highest vitamin d status[/link] or those with the lowest.

which you haven't substantiated.

but whichDr Cannell does in his article, all11 pages each page with links to appropriate evidence.
This is a theory he is expounding, he is simply setting out the outline of thetheory so in timeresearchers can confirm or not his theory. The point is, There is no risk in assuming he is is correct, there is littleor no cost on acting upon his theory.
If the theory is bunkum then all that will havehappened is that those people applying the higher level of vitamin d to reach optimal status will have had 70%fewer colds, they will have had 60% fewer cancers, lessdiabetes, less obestiyfewer heart attacks.
Nothing adverse will have happened to people who have maintained optimal vitamin d status so they will just have gained better health even if Dr Cannells theory regarding a possible beneficial impact on Autism is notrealised.
I just don't understand your reluctance to see the blindingly obvious.

Istated in my previous posting "high doses of vitamin d supplementation should not be done without extensive further research or advice from a professional who has experience in working with the biochemistry of autism."

That is just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. So you need a medical opinion from a recognised expert before you don your swimming cossie and obtain 20,000iu from exposure to sunshine? Totally ridiculous, absolutely bonkers. You'll be asking for a medical opinion before you open a tin of sardines next.

The sunbed use for an autistic child not recommended "without medical advice" is also connected with the safety issues of using the equipment, the sensory issues, etc i.e. that are specifically related to autism.

Yes I bet you wouldn't allow your child to switch the TV/PCon either without first obtaining medical advice. I really don't understand why some people areallowed tohave kids letalone keep them?

You have deliberately misconstrued the nature of my post with your blinkered views on what may or may not be possible regarding the use of Vitamin D with autism. You have produced no evidence to support your contentions. Having an optimal vitamin d status will help the brain function of any and every adult and you seem determined to keep autistics Vitamin D deficient without producing any reasonable evidence to support your claims.

Let us be clear if we were dealing with a person who deliberately kept their child short of water or food we would regard that as child abuse.

If you or any other parent of an autistic child knowingly deprives a child, autistic or not, of sufficient Vitamin D for optimum health is that not abuse ? Is it not negligence?

If I knew my father had deliberately kept me Vitamin d deficient when there was good evidence to think it may improve healthandno good reason not to use supplements/alternative strategies to obt

RE: Autism and Vitamin D3

ORIGINAL: Rustic

Whatever your knowledge about vitamin d, with respect, your knowledge about the autistic spectrumappears to besomewhat more limited. What direct experience have you had of treating children on the autistic spectrum with vitamin D alone, and what were the observable benefits to the child?

I’ll take it from your subsequentrant that the answer is none then. 😉

As you yourself have stated, Dr Cannell’s article is a theory, which if an adult chooses to act upon for themselves is their own choice, and I’ve no problem with that at all.

“This is a theory he is expounding, he is simply setting out the outline of thetheory so in timeresearchers can confirm or not his theory.”

This is an unsubstantiated theory in relation to autism, and I stand by my views (and last I heard I’m allowed some). I can only state that I would not allow any autistic child in my family to become the guinea pig for your personal vitamin d crusade without obtaining the opinion of someone who understood the biochemistry of autism.

The biochemistry of an autistic child is something you seem toknow nothing about, and getting a professional opinion before giving an autistic child high doses of ANY supplement is common sense, and shows that a parent is acting responsibly in the best interests of their child. Parents are quite capable of looking at a theory, getting some professional advice, and then making an informed decision based on more than one opinion. I no more slavishly follow conventional medical opinion than I accept as gospel some half baked theory about autism and vitamin d that comes from where was it…… the vitamin D council?

Your comment “Yes I bet you wouldn't allow your child to switch the TV/PCon either without first obtaining medical advice. I really don't understand why some people areallowed tohave kids letalone keep them?“ is frankly offensive. If you think that if an autistic child is too afraid to go outside the door, that the same child is somehow magically likely to don the safety goggles and hop on a sunbed for a quick top up of uv without a murmur, then I would suggest that you need to do a bit more research on autism. You do not have the right to criticise and make judgement about my parenting skills when you know nothing about what my child’s anxieties were, or his sensory issues that would have prevented sunbed treatment, or the severity of his condition. What would you have suggested? Tie him down, glue the goggles on? Force vitamin d down his throat?

Leaving aside your need forpersonal attack, if a parent acts on the theory that vitamin d is the cause of autism, and does nothing else but give high doses of vitamin d, they may be wasting months when they could be effectively helping their child by other means. This is especially important for children, because treating autistic children gets progressively more difficult as they get older.

From someone who was expecting me to provide online scientific studies to support my views, its seems its all right for you to avoid answering any questions that rock the vitamin- d- is -the –answer- to -autism boat, and its OK for you not to have to give any evidence to support giving high doses of vitamin d to autistic children because – apparently [sm=rollaugh.gif]– its common sense to you.

Some of my “evidence” comes from personal experience, which apparently counts for less than your unsubstantiated theory. Some of my ideas come from books, which are referenced. I would have been quite happy to have given you a list, but I shan’t waste the time. After all, comments such as “Totally ridiculous, absolutely bonkers. You'll be asking for a medical opinion before you open a tin of sardines next.” – well if that’s the standard I can expect from a debate with you, what would be the point?&

RE: Autism and Vitamin D3

There is absolutely no reason why any child or adult should have less than the optimal amount of Vitamin d in their systems.

The amount that is now regarded as optimal is detailed in this paper.
Circulating Vitamin D3 and 25-hydroxyvitamin D in Humans: An Important Tool to Define Adequate Nutritional Vitamin D Status

Achieving optimal vitamin d status requires more supplements or sunlight exposure than previously thought necessary as the latest research has shown less is made from regular hands/face exposure while working outdoors daily at latitude 42.
Effects of Above Average Summer Sun Exposure on Serum 25-Hydroxyvitamin D and Calcium Absorption
This means either full body exposure is necessary or as near to as possible or the use of an effective amount of supplement.

Risk assessment for vitamin D details of the safety of this secosteroid.

Low vitamin d statusincreases the riskof the following condition:cancer, ms, diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, melanoma, hyperparathyroidism, chronic pain,obesity, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, mental illness and depression .
The urgent need to recommend an intake of vitamin D that is effective draws attention to this problem.

As I have a close family relative with autism I am well aware of the problems associated with this condition.I am also very awareas tohow those caring for an autistic person, can convince themselves that nothing can be done, everyavenuewill prove pointless,and who therefore refuse to take any action which may alleviate the distress or reduce the effects of the condition.

Rustic's determined reluctance to consider carefully any of the suggestions put is an example of this blinkered mentality.

No one has suggested that raisingvitamin d status to optimalshould be conducted instead ofor in the place of any other treatment or therapy regime, therefore the idea that it will cause anyone to waste time is irrelevant.

Obtaining medical opinion about the use ofan effective level of vitamin d supplementationwhile to"official" RDA and TULare so out of touch with reality is simply a waste of time. While "OFFICIAL" consensus opinion is ridiculously out of touch with the latest research it is simply misguided to think that any "official" health professional will give advice outside of the current consensus.
This is anEmperor's New Clothes situation, it is simply unreasonable to expect your health professionals to put their personal careers on the line by supporting suggestions that are outside of the current consensus.

I have not at any point suggested that all the problems of autism can be remedied simply by raising Vitamin d status. The paper byDr Cannell is simply drawing attention to the mechanisms by which optimal Vitamin d status may impact on the progress of the condition.
[link= http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/health/autism/vit-D-and-brain.shtml#hd2 ]Is autism an ongoing destructive inflammatory disease process?[/link]having read this section I find it difficult to see why any caring parent would not want to ensure their child was not Vitamin d deficient or insufficient, irrespective of whether or not that childis autistic or not.
It appears Rustic, knowing his child may be vitamin d deficient, is determined to ensure the proinflammatory cytokines are allowed to continue their distructive activityuninterrupted by the anti-inflamatory actions that Vitamin d is known to provide.

I will once again remind readers that Vitamin D3 is very cheap if bought from USA where it can be obtained in amounts that are likely to be effective. Because Cholecalciferol is a natural product it cannot be patented so no one can make excessive profit out of promoting it. Similarly readers will be aware that regular limited sun exposure is free and providing you don't burn, it is safe. It takes only 20-40 minutes at this latitude to make sufficient with f

RE: Autism and Vitamin D3

ORIGINAL: tedhutchinson

As I have a close family relative with autism I am well aware of the problems associated with this condition.I am also very awareas tohow those caring for an autistic person can convince themselves that nothing can be done, everyavenuewill prove pointless,and therefore refuse to take any action which may alleviate the distress or reduce the effects of the condition.

So hasvitamin d taken your close relative off the autistic spectrum?

I know very well that otherthings can be done, because I have donethem for my own child, without vitamin D supplements,so sweeping statements like this don't serve the debate at all.

It is not for you to decide what the optimal amount of vitamin d is for me, or my children, autistic or otherwise. Nor is it for you to decide whether it is a waste of my time to get professional advice before going over the RDA's of any nutrient.

If it comes to a choice betweenCONSIDERINGadditional advice from a professional with experience with autism, orrely solely on your personal rantings in support of an unproven theory,take a guess which I'd probably pick. 😉

RE: Autism and Vitamin D3

**moderator's hat on**

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RE: Autism and Vitamin D3

Of course it isn't for me to dictate what is an optimal Vitamin d status.
That is what I leave to the experts.
People who have spent their whole lives researching to subject.
People who have produced accurate, published, peer reviewed papers year after year for the last 30 yrs.

People like Bruce Hollis who says " In the winter at the latitude of Chicago, even a fair person cannot photo-produce vitamin D from mid-October through March. Thus, it is VERY important to have a realistic vitamin D recommendation as the current 200 IU/day recommendation is a joke.
It is maddening to me to hear physicians say "drink some milk and you will obtain all the vitamin D you need." It is wrong and harmful to the patient. No one should have a circulating 25(OH) D level—this is the metabolite that defines nutritional vitamin D status—less than 80 nmol. I try to keep my own level at 125 nmol minimum and consume between 2,000-8,000 IU/day "Bruce W. Hollis, Ph.D.
Professor of PediatricsAnd Professor of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology Director of Pediatric Nutritional Sciences Medical University of South Carolina Charleston, SC, USA
This is what someone who has spent 30yrs devoted to finding out about Vitamin dand whose published over 151 research papers of the past 30 yrs, says. It really should be heeded. We live 1300mls further away from the Equator than does Bruce Hollis. This means we need significantly more Vitamin d than people need living at latitude 31 because the sun isn't so strong and doesn't shine for as long or as often. Listening to someone who repeats out of date unscientific myth based information that cannot stand logical scrutiny will simplyprolong the current epidemic of Vitamin d deficiency

I provide links to these papers where possible, I embolden the paper title so they can be searched for and read from beginning to end.
We have a situation where the research is now mile ahead of the current consensus of medical opinion so it is inevitable that unless your GP/Health professional has a particular interest in this subject the advice they provide will be governed by the official consensus that currently says that 200iu is an adequate amount for daily intake and 2000iu is toxic.
Those who have been following the daily revelations about Vitamin d will be aware that those figures are a sick joke. Anyone who relies on them is being dangerously misguided.

I will not repeat the links I've previously posted but I must make it absolutely clear there is nothing in any of my posts that does not stand logical scrutiny. I use my own name and do not hide behind any forum name. Because anyone can quite easily trace me I make absolutely certain everything I post can stand legal scrutiny if needed.

Where there is a choice between a safe, cheap, risk free, potentially beneficialroute and one which leads to increasing disability and which is proven to increase the riskofcancer (by 60%), ms (by 50%) diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, melanoma, hyperparathyroidism, chronic pain, obesity, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, mental illness and depression, those who choose the path known to result in higher levels of disability deserve no sympathy, but I do pity their kids.

RE: Autism and Vitamin D3

ORIGINAL: tedhutchinson

I use my own name and do not hide behind any forum name. Because anyone can quite easily trace me I make absolutely certain everything I post can stand legal scrutiny if needed.

.............. those who choose the path known to result in higher levels of disability deserve no sympathy, but I do pity their kids.

[sm=rollaugh.gif]

On most forums I know they use forum names. It had never crossed my mind that anyone would want to trace me for expressingan opinion on a discussion forum. Moderators moderate the content, the moderators generally use forum names, and people who don’t agree with forum names aren’t forced to join. Another reason for using a forum name is to ensure that forum members are not traceable by anyone with an ulterior motive.

Canyou provide links to anything Bruce Hollis has published on autism?

The idea of vitamin d supplementation and autism appears to have come from the article by Dr Cannell on the vitamin d website. I believe that the vitamin d council is an organisation run by Dr Cannell to promote the benefits of vitamin d in relation to general health. Dr Cannell’s 11 page article on autism seems topropose a theory that vitamin d supplementation for pregnant women may reduce the incidence of autistic children. It seems to make it quite clear that this is a theory that is no way proven. I can find no mention of any suggestion that anybody has suggested that vitamin d supplementation of an autistic child will reduce or cure their autism.

Both people referred to above seem to be promoting controlled exposure to sunlight as preferable to dietary supplementation as an aid to general health and cancer prevention.

Neither of these gentlemen appear to be

“People who have spent their whole lives researching the subject.” (Autism)
“People who have produced accurate, published, peer reviewed papers year after year for the last 30 yrs.” (On Autism).

The impracticalities and potential consequences of trying the suggested sunbed scenario while an autistic child is asleep are pretty obvious, leaving both the child and the carers at risk of injury and distress. With professional help it could possibly be done safely (for example with mild sedation) if vitamin d deficiency was medically proven, and the benefits of the therapy to an individual child outweighed the risks (not necessarily associated with vitamin D). The idea that autistic children will all be sleeping soundly in their beds, allowing their parents to sneak in with an over the bed type sun lamp – well lets just saythat’sprobably alittle optimistic in most cases, ;)and would certainly need consideration concerning what UV at night would do toother physiological processes unrelated to vitamin D.

Scepticism and reasoned critique of an unproven theory about autism is not an "all is doom" "nothing will help" state of mind. Anybody can cut and paste text from an online source but that doesn’t mean that this is all the information available that should be considered.

Vitamin d as a factor in autism is not a new concept. It is one of many referred to in the book previously mentioned, “The Biology of the Autistic Syndromes” for example. There is even a sub group of autistics with steatorrhea (fatty stools) (autism/steatorrhea syndrome) who have problems absorbing many nutrients.

Vitamin D is a fat soluble nutrient. According to Patrick Holford’s New Optimum Nutrition Bible, (which I am referring to as an easily accessible and concise general nutrition book) vitamin D should be taken with foods containing fats or oils, (as already stated) but the additional information is that calcium phosphorous and vitamins E and C help absorption, and what hinders it