Sustainable healthcare -going beyond medicine

I do think we should be going beyond medicine to address a lot of the health issues in the 21st Century wether it be physical or mental health, we are faced with so many modern dilemmas these days I don't think many GPs have a clue. Personally I will never go to a surgery again if I can help it, many docs are in their own little vacuum and I could write a book on this!

I do think we should be going beyond medicine to address a lot of the health issues in the 21st Century wether it be physical or mental health, we are faced with so many modern dilemmas these days I don't think many GPs have a clue. Personally I will never go to a surgery again if I can help it, many docs are in their own little vacuum and I could write a book on this!

Well all the delegates at the conference would agree with you - and many of them were GP's

I had a friend who was anti GP and into natural healing. She was a pagan. About 18 months ago she contacted me to ask advice about some symptoms she had been having for about a year. Self healing hadn't helped. 'But please don't tell me to go to a doctor Sally' I explained that if she was a client in my consulting room or a patient in a pharmacy I would have no choice BUT to suggest she seek medical advice because of the type and duration of her symptoms. I didn't tell her I thought she had ovarian cancer.

She did go to the doctor - and I took no pleasure from being right. This time last year she was celebrating being cancer free after chemo and surgery. I wondered then if she was hearing what she wanted to hear . Last week she died .

I get that doctors and modern medicine don't have all the answers.
I get that lifestyle changes are important - that we need to stop eating so much processed food and get back to healthier eating and cooking for ourselves more.
I get totally that modern drugs have drawbacks. I am a pharmacist and I can probably tell you re about them than you would ever want to know.

But there is one thing doctors can do that no-one else can and that is diagnose. Legally they are the ONLY ones who can.

Would my friend still be alive if she hadn't been so set on doing things naturally? Maybe maybe not. Maybe it was her time. But her last months of life would not have been filled with pain because when cancer spread it hurts more than you can ever imagine.

I often go to the doctor to get a diagnosis - and then look at my own options for treatment when I am sure self treatment is a safe option - which for my friend it was not. So please don't right off GP's

"Training of doctors, and other health professionals, also came up, and there was one very thought provoking statement. 'We are choosing the wrong people to be doctors and then dehumanising them in the system"
Interesting. I have a friend who - before he retired - was a Nurse Tutor at a big teaching hospital. For many years, he was in charge of interviewing and selecting potential students to train as nurses. He said that, in the interviews, he looked for "those indefinable somethings that we call empathy and compassion". Then, about 15 years ago, he was told, "Don't worry about those. We'll teach them in a six-week module." That was the day he put in for early retirement.

"Training of doctors, and other health professionals, also came up, and there was one very thought provoking statement. 'We are choosing the wrong people to be doctors and then dehumanising them in the system"
Interesting. I have a friend who - before he retired - was a Nurse Tutor at a big teaching hospital. For many years, he was in charge of interviewing and selecting potential students to train as nurses. He said that, in the interviews, he looked for "those indefinable somethings that we call empathy and compassion". Then, about 15 years ago, he was told, "Don't worry about those. We'll teach them in a six-week module." That was the day he put in for early retirement.

I recognise the quote from the conference. Were you there ? Yes there is a lot wrong but many GP's DO have the empathy and compassion - if not the time support and resources to make use of it in the best way. We ignore them at our peril. Interestingly there was also a lot of discussion of how patients need to take greater responsibility.

Doctors are on the whole caring people who became doctors to try and help people. That the system dehumanises them as it does so many other healthcare professionals is not their fault. The conference was all about changing the system

I am all for this change and empowering people to take more control over their health. I have been known to go to a doctor for diagnosis and then go away to treat myself with natural alternatives! Frowned upon but it's my choice. It still grates on me that, at a hospital, you are not supposed to/allowed to read your own medical chart that is at the foot of your bed!!! Outrageous! I hope that's one of the things that is undergoing a change!

When a doctor asked me what I had against orthodox medicine and extolled its virtues, he had nothing to say after my reply. I said that, whilst it most certainly had its uses, it also had its potentially damaging side....I explained that my mother was given an anti-inflammatory drug (starts with v and ends in x - the name is banned here!). This drug was found to be linked to a double risk of heart disease and deaths so was taken off the market....not before time though. My mother was taken off of it too late and succumbed to her first stroke. Before this she was a strong woman and it was a slow downhill path from then on (with another stroke and heart attack along the way). He hung his head in shame....

I am all for this change and empowering people to take more control over their health. I have been known to go to a doctor for diagnosis and then go away to treat myself with natural alternatives! Frowned upon but it's my choice. It still grates on me that, at a hospital, you are not supposed to/allowed to read your own medical chart that is at the foot of your bed!!! Outrageous! I hope that's one of the things that is undergoing a change!

When a doctor asked me what I had against orthodox medicine and extolled its virtues, he had nothing to say after my reply. I said that, whilst it most certainly had its uses, it also had its potentially damaging side....I explained that my mother was given an anti-inflammatory drug (starts with v and ends in x - the name is banned here!). This drug was found to be linked to a double risk of heart disease and deaths so was taken off the market....not before time though. My mother was taken off of it too late and succumbed to her first stroke. Before this she was a strong woman and it was a slow downhill path from then on (with another stroke and heart attack along the way). He hung his head in shame....

Yes that drug ( Rofecoxib ) should never have come to market IMO. Happily these days there are stricter regulations about providing ALL evidence about new drugs - even the trials that show problems. However that doesn't mean all new drugs are bad. Lest be honest we will all be cheering when a new antibiotic is discovered

Re hospital charts there is nothing to stop you reading them. Whether you would understand them is another issue of course. Medically trained as I am sometimes even I can't understand what the notes mean!! But access to your medical notes is a fundamental right these days.

Yes that drug ( Rofecoxib ) should never have come to market IMO. Happily these days there are stricter regulations about providing ALL evidence about new drugs - even the trials that show problems. However that doesn't mean all new drugs are bad. Lest be honest we will all be cheering when a new antibiotic is discovered

Re hospital charts there is nothing to stop you reading them. Whether you would understand them is another issue of course. Medically trained as I am so metimes even I can't understand what the notes mean!! But access to your medical notes is a fundamental right these days.

I am glad to hear that there are now stricter regulations before a new drug can come on to the market. Re. antibiotics - I am sure you are well informed of their link to bacterial resistance which is a widespread and growing problem.

Whilst I realise that drugs generally do their job...well, treat the symptoms anyway, it still goes against my inner core to have to take a tablet for my high blood pressure. If there was a reliable natural alternative I would be on that in a nanosecond! As you know high blood pressure can cause dizziness; amongst the very long list of side effects for taking Losarthan (the drug given me for this condition) is..............dizziness!!

There have been several occasions when I was looking at my mother's medical chart (at the foot of her bed) and told that I was not allowed to! I felt outraged and indignant about this. I also looked at her notes (in the folder) and scribbled down anything I did not understand to research later.

Yes I do know that we now have access to our medical notes...for a fee, I believe?

You can ask to see your medical records at your GP practice - you need to give notice. They will not charge, unless you want copies of any of it. You may have been 'told off' about reading your mothers notes as they were hers, not yours. I looked at my Mums notes when she was dying, and was told to talk to the duty registrar if I had any questions rather than trying to interpret her notes. You can apply to read other peoples notes but have to make a written application to their GP or consultant and with their (the patients) written consent - if they are unable to consent, then it would require negotiation with the practice manager, the Data Protection Act and fees. There's lots of information about this via the NHS website.

Whilst I realise that drugs generally do their job...well, treat the symptoms anyway, it still goes against my inner core to have to take a tablet for my high blood pressure. If there was a reliable natural alternative I would be on that in a nanosecond! As you know high blood pressure can cause dizziness; amongst the very long list of side effects for taking Losarthan (the drug given me for this condition) is..............dizziness!!

Along with many other drugs that have as a side effect the very thing they are supposed to treat. One of the early drugs for AIDS (was it AZT?) had as a side effect 'impairment of the immune system'. And I think it is well known now that a side effect of paracetamol is headache.

There have been several occasions when I was looking at my mother's medical chart (at the foot of her bed) and told that I was not allowed to! I felt outraged and indignant about this. I also looked at her notes (in the folder) and scribbled down anything I did not understand to research later.

You're allowed to look at your own - although that doesn't stop some hospital staff trying to stop you. I guess that's a control thing. You aren't allowed to look at anyone else's.

But there is one thing doctors can do that no-one else can and that is diagnose. Legally they are the ONLY ones who can.

I often go to the doctor to get a diagnosis - and then look at my own options for treatment when I am sure self treatment is a safe option - which for my friend it was not. So please don't right off GP's

I am of the opinion that self healing can work. The problem is that we have absolute faith in the process. Unfortunately very few do. It is almost like learning a second language. Trying to understand the second language by using the former language just undoes the process.
Even getting a diagnosis is unproductive for those who are using "Divine" understanding to restore health, as even thinking about illness retards progress..

I am of the opinion that self healing can work. The problem is that we have absolute faith in the process. Unfortunately very few do. It is almost like learning a second language. Trying to understand the second language by using the former language just undoes the process.
Even getting a diagnosis is unproductive for those who are using "Divine" understanding to restore health, as even thinking about illness retards progress..

While not using 'divine; anything, I do agree that (from a shamanic point of view) a diagnosis can hinder the process of healing. Although, expecting people who need healing not to think about illness is a bit much - and can lead to blaming the victim.

While not using 'divine; anything, I do agree that (from a shamanic point of view) a diagnosis can hinder the process of healing. Although, expecting people who need healing not to think about illness is a bit much - and can lead to blaming the victim.

Thinking about the "illness" is I believe the root cause of the illness. That is why it is so hard to overcome.

Thinking about the "illness" is I believe the root cause of the illness. That is why it is so hard to overcome.

There I'd disagree. But certainly I would say that describing yourself as 'ill' will persuade your soul that you are right. From a shamanic point of view, the root cause will be spiritual - and that can often be put right.

There I'd disagree. But certainly I would say that describing yourself as 'ill' will persuade your soul that you are right. From a shamanic point of view, the root cause will be spiritual - and that can often be put right.

From a Shamanic point of view is the spiritual cause remote from the patient or is it something that they themselves have introduced.