RE: Do You give to beggars?
Original: Amelia Jane
errr...healistic..I'm not condoning the use of drink or drugs..what I supose I'm saying is 'say nothing until you've walked a mile in their shoes!'
I always thought that the received wisdom regarding giving was not to give cash directly to beggars because of the drink and drugs issue. When I did have spare cash, in more affluent times ( for me at least ) I took part in a scheme that encouraged donors to buy items from a list of things liketins of beans, soup, eggs, bacon, fruitetc and take them to a centre that prepared meals for homeless people.
To my mind this was a good scheme because it meant that you contributed in terms of money and time, therefore saving resources for the centre. I don't have as much disposable income these days and I don't have as much time being as I no longer work shifts.
I did Crisis at Christmas on a number of occasions. It was run by the Methodist Church during Christmas week and was held at one of the larger Methodist Churches where I live. This was run primarily for homeless people but anyone who happened to be alone at Christmas would be invited.
As volunteers we would cook breakfast, lunch and evening meals. Againdonors were asked to bring in listed items. One of the very strict rules was that no alcohol was to be included and I found it a littlesurprising that bags of donated produce would be searched for alcoholic drinks. However it wasn't unknown for people to smuggle in drink.
I am sure that no one here advocates that facilitating someone's drink or drug habit is in any way doing that person a favour. In my experience, when life gets tough, the last thing anyone needs is a drink problem or a drug habit. Sometimes what you want isn't always what you need.
Dunkirk
RE: Do You give to beggars?
I don't buy the Big Issue. As a student I bought it faithfully until I was in Birmingham one day and a man approached me and asked me to buy one, when I declined, he laid into be with a barrage of abuse and pushed me about a bit. He said some not very nice things calling me sefish and swearing a lot. The irony is that I had a copy in my bag which I had bought from someone else earlier in my trip. I am so happy I didn't buy from him. I haven't bought one since, looking back it's a shame one individual spoilt it, but that's what happened. I felt nervous of the sellers for a number of years after that, moving away away from any I saw to avoid an interaction. It's a shame it spoilt it for me. Maybe I should rethink now. Funny what one incident can do eh?
I don't give to beggars. I recall a woman in Strasourg, who we would see when I was studying out there, she had a sign, laminated (we thought that was strange), it said 'Je suis femme Bosnienne'. I have nothing against Bosnians, it's just where she said she was from. What was even more strange was that the sign was written in a number of different languaes too, to appeal to the tourists? Now, one day we saw her leaving her house, nice area, with a bunch of kids, we recognised them too, and we saw her depositing them around the town in various locations on a number of occasions after this. The kids were of school age and we were there in the winter, a cold one at that, it all seemed very, very wron. It made me think, there must be professional beggars out there, so I haven't given to a beggars since. It made me feel terribly sad. Well, almost never.
I also have a number of charities which I will not donate to, they are probably some of the ones I would be most interested in supporting, however I refuse to donate to any charity which wasted much needed donations on blanket mailouts and sending pens and fancy brochures to anyone and everyone.
I guess I'm just cautious. I give, just not via those routes.
I do agree with lotusflower, some of the comments are really sad.. then there are some which are wonderfully encouraging. I guess those are the ones I'll take with me and I will remember next time I see someone or an opportunity to help someone.
RE: Do You give to beggars?
Wow I have opened a good debate!.
I think when I see the homeless/beggars on the street in all weathers, I think' there but for fateam I'.
It would be so easy for any of us to become in that situation.
I cannot be judgemental because I dont know individual circumstances why they are there. All I think is they need help, while they are homeless.
I think the Big Issue is a great idea and alwaysround the money off without having change back.
The pleasure you get from their expressions when you give them a hot meal (usually a hot sarnie etc,. is lovely. They are so surprised and genuinely smile. It is worthwhile.
You should try it Orangeblossom.
Ive often said If I won a huge amount on the lotto, I would open hostels where I can.
I chatted to one guy in my town once and because he was older (approx 50) he couldnt get into the local hostel because it was the YMCA and they refused him because of his age!!!.
He sold the big Issue.
RE: Do You give to beggars?
BTW I must add I also cannot afford to give, as I am on pension/DLA/benefits but it doesnt stop me from helping out. Folks tell me I am too generous!!.
RE: Do You give to beggars?
Having re-read some comments here, Can I mention that if one is homeless with no home address,they cannot get jobs.
With regard to social housing,there is one county down south that has over 5,000 on their waiting list for social housing.Thats just one county, whats the others like?.
RE: Do You give to beggars?
Just had to add, my dad (bless his soul, now passed on 25yrs), became homeless, after he and mum divorced. When I finally found him by searching for him, he was on the streets. The family got together, tried in vain, everything we gave him, went to the bottle store. This is a fact. We lived it, we got dad into a flat, bought him goods, within five hours, everything was sold. And once again he was on the street.
One day, he and I sat together and I asked him why he chose that life. And why he begged.
He didn't want to live he said, and as for the begging he toldme...
"I beg for booze, and booze gives me courage to beg"
Those words have stuck with me.
Well just had to get that off my chest.
Shaz
xxxx
RE: Do You give to beggars?
So sorry queenfe about your dad.
It proves my point, we dont know why many folks get homeless so we shouldnt be judgemental. There are many issues behind those faces you see in the street.
While I was nursing I came across a wide group of people and as nurses we were not allowed to be judgemental and therefore nursed sick folks regardless of their background. So I suppose thatswhy I can sympathise with victims of homelessness etc,. It doesnt stop at humans neither!.
RE: Do You give to beggars?
hello all
Yes i do!...we are all god.
who are we to judge as to who best recieves our blessings.
blessings
andre
RE: Do You give to beggars?
Having re-read some comments here, Can I mention that if one is homeless with no home address,they cannot get jobs.
As I said earlier, Caringsoul:
It's futile for these people who often (not all, I know) want to work but can't because they have no fixed address to start with
How can our social system be fair when these unfortunates can't get a foot on the ladder to start with.
Love
RE: Do You give to beggars?
I agree Lotusflower. :).
RE: Do You give to beggars?
Reading some of these replies, I think it's really sad that some people adopt a blanket 'no' approach because they've come across a few questionable beggars orbig issue sellers.
I always try to go with my first thought, some people I instinctively decide to give money to and others I decide not to.
'There but for the grace of God' -if ever there were a phrase relevent to this issue, it's this one.
And it's weird actually, I always find I'm more generous to beggars when I'm really skint myself. What's that all about?
ShinyCatx
RE: Do You give to beggars?
I think that the so called safety net of the benefits system lets a lot of vulnerable people down and down badly. I also know there are probably people who claim benefit that they arent entitled to, thats the way that life is unfortunately. What my frustration always has been is that there arent enough services for people in need, and not just young people either. I said in an earlier post that I used to work in a project for young homeless people. It housed 39 young people, male and female, they lived in self contained bedsits. We were supposed to assess them for housing and move them on between 6 months to a year.
However, it was rather idealistic of all providers involved to think that these young people needed basic housing support. We got referrals for young people who had alcohol issues, depression, young people who were self harming, people with bipolar, schizophrenia, the list goes on.
What the scary thing was, most of these young people had never been properly diagnosed so in most cases, we were holding onto them until something happened, they either moved on or had to leave, it was really frustrating.
Homelessness mostly comes with other problems, many of them multiple. Not all people who are homeless use alcohol and not all people who use alcohol are homeless.
Take a young person who is depressed and is drinking. Or any person who is depressed and drinking. Alcohol is a depressant but it is one of the first things people will lift when they feel low because they mistakenly think that alcohol will life their mood. So, lets say someone is using alcohol and is also seriously depressed. They may be in need of counselling or a CPN BUT you can be in the situation where its like chicken and egg, are they depressed because they are drinking or drinking because they are depressed?
I have seen young people with teams of outside agency support, but the problem is sometimes that the right hand doesnt know what the left hand is doing.
I once had a telephone call from an employer, who a young person had made an application to work to. I answered the phone and the employer asked who I was, I explained that I worked in the accommodation that that young person lived in, he basically said that he didnt want to employ someone who was homeless.
As I said above, the rules of housing benefit are also as such that if a young person is in supported housing and they are working, they can end up paying a fortune out in rent every week, in most cases young people are stuck in the benefit trap and its hard to get out of that.
People end up homeless for all sorts of reasons, everyone has a history and who am I to judge someone just because they need support at any point in their lives. If I dont give to a beggar, someone else will, if I dont buy the Big Issue someone else will. If I dont have any money in my pocket I cant hand over anything anyway.
As I also said earlier Im not a great fan of the Big Issue, not because of what they are trying to do but because of something that happened to me. Im not in Glasgow very often these days and people dont sell so much in Lanarkshire. The last time I bought a magazine was maybe about 3 months ago and the young man I bought it from was freezing, I had 2 bags on me and I was trying to scramble about for change and he was saying to me just give me what you have and I was trying to make sure I gave him the face value of the paper and he thanked me very much and I moved on.
Its not always the giving of the money that makes someones day, its the fact that you have taken the time to stop and speak or even if you arent buying, that you let them know.
Ive also had a couple of bad experiences with Big Issue vendors, but Ive also had bad experiences with rude sales assistants, drunk people on buses and trains, people in pubs.
The fact is, if the powers that be in this land were doing their job properly, there would be enough low cost housing to go around, there wouldnt be daft rules that force people into poverty and keep them there.
There would be enough help for people who are s
RE: Do You give to beggars?
I want to tell you a story of my experiences in this dream over the last year or so
In 2004 i joined a friend and partner in his business giving up a successfull business career
He is succesfull in the eyes of the World and has a big house, land, many cars and much money already
The deal was that if successfull we would split all profit 50/50
I soley instigated a lucrative MOD contract worth approx £150,000 plus ongoing spares for life. Potentially millions of £££s
A year later i left to care for my wife and child still with the agreement that all profit would be split 50/50. The contract was signed and sealed so there was no more to do on this.
I since found out that we have indeed made a good profit, yet my friend hasnt told me of this,
During the last year I have lost my home and had to declare bankruptcy along with my ill wife.
My friend knows this but has kept all the money for himself.
What I have realised is that I am happy for him to have this money, he is my brother and as such myself.
I have also had the gift of the oppertunity to forgive him what he has never done - a blessing
Why would i deny myself anything, it would be madness to. ARNT we all ONE - Isnt he me ?
We can all look at beggars as being the poor and homeless yet it is ALL who think they lack anything that are temporarily lacking. My friend believes he needs this money.
If we cannot afford to give to a brother we are indeed lacking.
To those who believe in lack, offer them what you have.
Isnt going to work lack
Isnt a bigger mortgage lack
Isnt thinking you cant afford to help a brother lack
When you feel lacking, know you are Gods precious son for eternity and are in need of nothing
When you look upon a brother that appears to be lacking, know he is the holy son of GOD, the same as you and lacks nothing - then help him with the only true gift there is - your love - be that in material form of just in a word of kindness and compassion.
For those who judge - forgive what you see for what your eyes show you is a lie and in your forgivness you will find peace and love for eternity
Be gentle on yourselves and be strong for those who are still deep in the dream
God Bless
RE: Do You give to beggars?
My point btw was not about my story which is irrelevant as part of my dream
It was that we oftenlook upon a beggar as lacking and in need of help but often not at those who we "believe" have everything, when it may well be those that are in need of our love strength and compassion
Not all is as it appears
RE: Do You give to beggars?
Hmmm, very interesting debate - caringsoul has really got something started here!
I remember visiting Rome when I was 19(quite a long time ago!), and being shocked to see beggars in the street. Growing up in Britain, I had never seen anything like that and couldn't even imagine it happening here. How times change!
Twenty years ago, I used to give money to anyone who asked - working on the principle that anyone who was reduced to asking for money obviously needed it more than I did. These days I am much more discerning, which maybe means that begging has become much more diverse and dishonest, or maybe just means that I have become a more heartless bastard.
When I lived in Leeds I used to pass a young woman who sat on a piece of cardboard on the grass, begging passers-by for cash. I'm not ashamed to say that she irritated me, despite my natural liberalism and generosity. If I'd been braver I would have offered her a useful tip: why don't you go and sit on that bench three feet away as it would be a lot more comfortable! She was able-bodied and I found it offensive that she would deliberately try to make herself look more pathetic to win sympathy.
These days I am most likely to come across beggars on my train journey into central London for work. They tend to get on and off the train at the first station from the terminus - a notorious area for drug dealers. And they can be very persuasive. I used to give money sometimes, though I was put off after I took pity on a man withabandaged leg andcrutches - who,onalighting from the train, tucked his crutches under his arm and ran for the other platform to repeat the routine on another train. Talk about miracle recovery!
But when you hear their pitch for the hundredth time, the tug at the heart strings does tend to weaken a little. Funny how they all use the same "script" (and adopt the same whiny voice). On Saturday night we had two of them saying exactly the same thing one after the other on the same train.
I take the point about not being judgmental about how beggars spend their cash, but I do object to putting my money straight into the pockets of dealers. Maybe it's true that heroin helps them forget the misery of their lives for a few minutes - but how is that helping them in the longer run?
I would rather now give my money to organised charities who take a practical approach to helping people on the streets help themselves. Maybe that makesme sound sanctimonious and smug. Maybe I am sanctimonious and smug. But I'm still a naturally generous person and I'm sure I do give away more of my money, in regularrather than ad hoc payments, than most. In fact, this thread has given me the impetus to give more.... what is everyone's favourite charity to help the homeless/young people living on the street?