RE: Do You give to beggars?
[color="#6600cc"]I wouldn't buy the Big Issue to make me feel good - I'd buy it like any other magazine, because I wanted it. In the same way with street buskers - if it's a good performance then I give money to them.
On the other hand, I now prefer to give directly to people (time, money, goods or a combination) because I work for charities (I do web sites for them) and I see the amount of money some of the big charity names waste on the "we have an advertising budget of this much - what can we get for it? We need to spend it now or we'll lose it cos we get another budget next year" attitude.
Incidentally, I know from talking to people on the street that there are some who are genuinely trying to get out of the situation that they are in and some who are not. Does that make a difference to people's feelings, I wonder?
RE: Do You give to beggars?
* With moderator's hat on *
ORIGINAL: orangeblossom
This is isn't a spiritual forum it is General Discussions. You've got your wires crossed.
orangeblossom, HealthyPages is considered to be primarily a health, healing and spiritual forum. This is stated in the forum guidelines:
[link= http://www.healthypages.net/forum/tm.asp?m=14603 ]http://www.healthypages.net/forum/tm.asp?m=14603[/link]
where you will also find reference to members being asked to disagree ina polite way without causing offence.
This applies to all areas of HP equally, whether in General Discussions or elsewhere, and should be borne in mind.
Holistic
* Mod's hat off *
RE: Do You give to beggars?
ORIGINAL: crystaltherapy
I was talking about healthypages in general, apologies, didnt mean to cross any wires, was just stating an opinion.
crystaltherapy, I think we posted at about the same time, my post # 17 should hopefully clarify. I do not believe your posts have crossed any lines.
Holistic
RE: Do You give to beggars?
Well, we all have choices in this life, sometimes we make good ones, sometimes we make bad ones. I count myself as being lucky, I've been through some things in my life that hit me hard and could have resulted in me hitting the self destruct button but I didnt. Ihave the support of my family and friends, and even though as I said, I live in an area thats less than fantastic, I have a roof over my head, money in my pocket (well, I will have more when my student loan is paid off), I can afford to eat and clothe myself and heat my home.
The thing is as well, sometimes people when they hit maybe not rock bottom but on the way down, dont know how to get back up again. I have knowledge of the benefits system, not to the last letter but enough that if I lost my job I would know what I am entitled to and how to claim it.
Many people dont and even if they did, they might not have the confidence to pick up the phone and phone a call centre (which everyone needs to do now when making a benefit claim), they might not have money in their phone to do so, they might need someone like me or people who work in my line of work to assist them to do so.
RE: Do You give to beggars?
Incidentally, I know from talking to people on the street that there are some who are genuinely trying to get out of the situation that they are in and some who are not.
Perhaps those that are not have lost hope in ever changing their quality of life. It is these people that need our help the most.
I dont give to beggers for that reason, I once gave a couple of pounds to a young lady and a dog who both looked so pitifull that I gave in. As I went to collect my car later on that day I saw her andthe dog and a man and a dog running through the car park and getting into a newish car. (newer than mine).
I know they are not all like that but how do you know?
I am curious to know why you made the judgement you did? You have no idea whose car it was. Perhaps someone she knew gave her a lift somewhere that day? Why did that one experience stop you from giving to others in the same situation?
Sometimes in life we have a bad experience and it stops us from helping when in reality it was just one bad experience. When we give we give unconditionally, and ought not to be concerned about how it will be spent. In the Conversations with God books there is an example that is spoken about, in that we may spontaneously decide to help someone, but in that instant the mind kicks in and talks us out of it, and gives us many reasons why we shouldn't help. The answer is clear - go with your first thought, it will always be correct.
I now always try to listen to my spontaneous voice, for it is the true voice.
RE: Do You give to beggars?
The thing is, here, the Big Issue sellers are mostly (not all I know) young. When I was in Prague a few years back I bought a big issue, or their equivalent from an old woman, she was absolutely frozen solid and I dont know all the details but I did read somewhere that in the Czech Replublic after the velvet revolution its the older people who have suffered with the withdrawal in state benefits.
Things like that touch me and I remember people like her long after I have gone home. I was also in Spain, Barcelona I think and there was a man with a dog and he was begging (the man not the dog) and my ex really used to give me a hard time about giving money away even though it was my money so when he went to look at clothes I legged it back down the street to give the man a few coins.
I may be barking mad but if I hadnt I wouldnt have forgotten it, not because I think I want to feel better for giving, just that as the last poster says, if you are in a situation where you can and you want to but dont, your inner nagging voice might eat away at you long after.
The make poverty history campaign had a big effect on me, I work with young people and took a group and afterwards, I cleared out all the clutter and old clothes that had been sitting gathering dust in my wardrobe and gave it away.
Sometimes it takes an event like that to smack a bit of reality into you and realise that you have more than you ever think you have. It did for me anyway. As I said in previous postings, Im skint and will be until the end of this year when my degree is finally paid for, but compared to some people, I am rich and not just in wealth terms.
And I am quite sure that long after many of us have given and walked away or helped out in a shelter or sat with someone while they cry on your shoulder, the person on the receiving end of the assistance might not thank you at the time but they may look back when things pick up and realise that someone who cared in their lives when they felt they had nothing or no one, might have given someone the strength to keep going.
RE: Do You give to beggars?
Hiya, we don't have a whole lot of beggers where I live now, one or two big issue sellers & I buy it, like others because it actually is a good mag. But I do know a littlebit about homelessnes
I think it's important to remember that those people you see living rough all have areason why they are there, no one really does it through choice & it certainly isn't a big money earner as somewould try & convince you....that awful 'uban myth' about tramps or homeless people really being millionairs living in big mansions paid for by the proceeds of begging is [:'(]IMHO. It's not a choice I would say people actually make..I mean, when little Jonny or Jenny are asked what would they like to be when they grow up...do they say 'homeless'??:eek:... sleeping rough & being vulnarable, not particually protected by the police either, looked upon as the scum of humanity by some people,but once there it's not so easy to get away from....but if someone does spend their 'begged' money on drink or drugs..personally I wouldn't blame them...whatever gets them through the night in my view
Love
Amy
xxx
RE: Do You give to beggars?
Hi crystaltherapy,
thank you for your knowledge about benfits etc. I have now been in Somerset for 6 months and due to unforseen circumstances was not able to work at the CentreI thoughtI would be. Pride stopped me from asking for financial help andI have gone on getting into debt while constantly searching for work. I have never claimed benefit and whenI finally was forced to
go to the Job centre I was toldI wasn't entitled to any asI haven't paid enough NI contributions and although i have not received a penny from my husband they still keep taking his income into account! So, as you have pointed out the system is not there for everyone.
Love and light
reikiangel
xxx
RE: Do You give to beggars?
And the thing about benefits is as well, as I briefly stated above the system now has changed, previously if someone needed to make a claim for JSA or anything similar they could go to the DSS office and do it face to face. Not now. You need to phone a call centre number (which isnt free), spend time in a queue waiting to be spoken to. It costs some of the poorest people in society to make a claim now for benefits. I cant see how that can be right. I would like to know just for interests sake, where the money from the call centres goes as well.
Also, in the town where I live, there was always a job centre. The last time I signed on was 2003, I was able to spend 60p on bus fare to get into the town centre, make my claim and then go home.
That was also where I signed on. That job centre is now shut, so if people want to sign on they need to go to Motherwell which is the nearest town, about 4 miles away. Which costs more money, basically it would cost someone 2 pounds per week or fortnight to go and sign on to make sure they got their giro.
When you are on 44 pounds a week or less 2 pounds of that is quite a lot. These are things that might not cause me any distress right now but if I am ever in the position where I need to claim benefit again thats what I would be stuck with.
I also very much agree with Amy. I work full time, I have a social life, if I wanted to I could make the choice to spend a lot of my disposable income on alcohol. I wouldnt because I have other debts that need paid, but I could. And apart from getting my ear bent from my mum, no one would be able to say, dont to that. I also dont think it would cause massive shockwaves.
People who use certain drugs do certain things to survive, there have been other posts on this issue elsewhere. If the Big Issue stops people from having to go through the criminal justice system or having to sell their body to survive who am I to tell someone dont you dare spend my money on drink or drugs?
I would be hoping that the assistance given might lead someone to stop using substances and to get some help for their issues.
Im sure there are plenty of people in this society who have a nice lifestyle and choose to spend loads of money on alcohol, drugs etc, however because their lifestyle might not lead them into hitting bottom, we are less likely to judge someone if they are rich, famous and can afford a drug taking lifestyle than someone begging on a street corner.
Homelessness and all the resulting issues that go along with it is a complex subject indeed.
RE: Do You give to beggars?
I made the judgementI did? Because I new whose car it was. The man and dog were also begging in the same street.
I have met a lot since in the job I do and I can tell you that there are those in need and those who are not in need and also I might add those that harass and abuse.
Until they are licensed you will never know the wood from the trees.
The first beggar I ever met was in 1962. Who greeted me with the words "Have you a
penny for a cup of tea sir?" Yes I certainly had.
I always go with my first instinct, but remember as spiritualists we are always learning and I certainly learned something that day.
RE: Do You give to beggars?
Hi Amelia Jane.
Whilst I have to agree that what they do with the money is in principle up to them.
I would never condone the use of drink and drugs as you do.
Sorry but in my opinion you are wrong to say that.
RE: Do You give to beggars?
I would never condone the use of drink and drugs as you do.
errr...healistic..I'm not condoning the use of drink or drugs..what I supose I'm saying is 'say nothing until you've walked a mile in their shoes!'
Amy
RE: Do You give to beggars?
Just a thought. What are the options then for people who are homeless who may have substance use issues? Also are people on a low income who have an addiction, should they be viewed differently than someone who works and has a stable home?
RE: Do You give to beggars?
I made the judgementI did? Because I new whose car it was. The man and dog were also begging in the same street.
I have met a lot since in the job I do and I can tell you that there are those in need and those who are not in need and also I might add those that harass and abuse.
Until they are licensed you will never know the wood from the trees.
I still would rather be conned out of a few quid from time to time; than make the decision never to give again.
All those selling The Big Issue are licensed, and they carry a badge too, which they will gladly show you.
RE: Do You give to beggars?
I've found some of the comments on this thread very sad to read. As as been said above, people don't chose to become homeless beggars. People are increasingly defaulting on mortgage payments due to rising interest rates, with the result that their houses are being repossessed and they are finding themselves out on the street -not everyone has supporting family and friends to help them out; and thenthere are youngsters who have fallen out with parents/step parentsand found themselves on the street. Does that suddenly make them all pariahs who don't know how to keep themselves clean, therefore we mustn't come into contact with them lest we get an infection![:-] The social system is not obviously working with all it's bureacratic red tape - as the amount of homeless on our streets is a testament to this. It's bad enough trying to get a jobseekers allowance of £52 a week with the amount of paperwork to fill in (as my husband found out when he was unemployed) so goodness know what you have to do to get a place to stay. It's futile for these people who often (not all, I know) want to work but can't because they have no fixed address to start with - a self perpetuating situation in itself. It's wrong to judge all homeless people this wayas not all of them are winos drinking their lives away in shop doorways but who, through no fault of their own, have found their lives turned upside down.
I live in a fairly affluent area but I see homeless people sleeping in the stairwell of our car parks. I too, can't afford to give them all money, but there are one I two I know now and I give them hot soup at lunchtime and a tin or two of dog food for their pets.
We are the fortunate ones who have a roof over our head, warm houses and food on the table. Homelessness could happen to anyone!
Love