The quote Sunanda posted says it all for me. I don't care who wrote it,
Often quotes come so easy. They persuade not due to logic or truth but due to word-smithery (smithry?). It's similar to the way people can always find anything in the Bible to support contrary points of view. Darn! I wish I'd remembered it. Can't recall it now. Mark Twain wrote a quotable piece which was wonderful, and said directly the opposite to the quote referred to.
.....Going off-topic, I never realised Twain was so brilliant at quotable lines. Take a look: http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/1655.Mark_Twain?page=1
Hundreds of them. and yes, among them we do find: "God created war so that Americans would learn geography." 🙂 But he wasn't anti-American, just a great wordsmith.
V
Nonviolence (in 2011, but not in a hopefully better world) means that the violence of others multiplies. It's like: the police have to arrest criminals. From a pacifist PoV, should we now just disband all police? I think not!
We all want a nonviolent world, but it's ridiculous to believe that all persons and nations will arrive at it at the same time. Back to the cases of Nazi Germany or of the USSR, for example. If even one violent nation (or group) which attacks others is not counteracted, they'll by sheer logic (if all other groups and nations are pacifist) take over the world by force. It really ain't so simple.
And if one violent nation or group takes over the world, as Nazi Germany attempted to, then the whole world is full of the most horrific of violence imaginable, such as the invasions and the Holocaust. Was the Holocaust "OK"? If we could have prevented it, who's saying that would not have been right? Things really ain't so simple.
The road towards the peaceful world we all want is going to be gradual, with each nation gradually putting down arms. In fact - the solution is not political or by arms in the end, but by a gradual spiritual awakening everywhere - what I call the "Coming Golden Age". True democracy itself was born in the USA (not in ancient Greece BTW), and it was created and won - by force of arms. Without that American War of Independence, we'd have no democracy in the world today. A wonderful Ideal for its time, but even it was won by arms. Without that war, we'd all still be living under dictatorships of one form or another, far worse daily violence. Britain and Europe as we know them wouldn't even exist.
The thinking of well-meaning people is touching, but logically flawed.
V
Back - er - to the raid and Bin Laden (if that's OK?)
I've been on a deliberate almost-fast from news for days, unusual for me.
Just catching up on headlines now re this subject. From the PoV of American tactical success, the raid seems to have been impeccable. Not one casualty. You know, I think I can understand in a way why there was felt a need to tell of it immediately. But that immediacy has clearly led to a communications nightmare. Much of what we first read is incorrect. For what it's worth, I'd now suspect that there was very little if any resistance - they just weren't expected. Even the "downed" helicopter may well have just hit a roof with its blades: otherwise how come everybody on board survived? How would that happen if hit by a rocket-propelled grenade?
The main thing is that it worked. There are more than one records of such missions ending in disaster. But the PR job and the continuing change in the story is a big shame. Someone in the White House even said today, "To be honest, even I'm confused"? - or similar.
Please excuse my harping on about this? I think most HP members are female so may be less interested in the mission? But I've been fascinated with military tactics and strategy since the age of four - I think because I was quickly re-embodied after being a person in charge of such: it's the first thing I recall being interested in.
V
Nonviolence is the answer to the crucial political and moral question of our time; the need for man to overcome oppression and violence without resorting to violence and oppression.
Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation.
The foundation of such a method is Love.
- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
(Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech, Stockholm, Sweden, 1964)
Love that! Thanks, Barafundle.
I think most HP members are female so may be less interested in the mission?
What a sexist thing to say, Venetian.
What a sexist thing to say, Venetian.
Sorry! 😮 I honestly take it that males tend more to be more interested in such things.... tactical details and such.
V xx
Sorry! 😮 I honestly take it that males tend more to be more interested in such things.... tactical details and such.
V xx
LOL ... which, again, is a sexist thing to say! Very sexist viewpoint. 😉
Sorry again! I never thought about it that way. Maybe you are interested in military tactics etc? Anyway, easily time for bed in the UK ....
V xx
Sorry again! I never thought about it that way. Maybe you are interested in military tactics etc? Anyway, easily time for bed in the UK ....
V xx
Don't worry about it, Venetian. I knew it wasn't intentional on your part, which is why I was laughing about it. But I also thought it was important to point it out, because there are a lot of women in the military, as well as women in general who are interested in not only the overall story but the military tactics used, etc.
Hm.
I just woke up a bit by the way so see your posts. I'd like to say that you have written very interesting earlier posts with interesting-looking links. I'd like to read those links, but haven't yet. I know the news has moved on too!
Totally off-topic, Wednesday night I was with a pal and vaguely discussing the virtues or good points we like in a female partner. You have probably never seen the UK 1990s sit-com, "Men Behaving Badly"? But looking back it reminds me of that. My pal started to list all the things a female must have going for her to either of us. I forget the rest of the list, but (on the sexism theme you raise), he ended, "Got to be interested in football of course". And without even thinking (watching a game), I answered quite seriously then, "Oh, yeah. Definitely she has to be into football." 🙂 We just took it as a given at the time. 😮
V
Totally off-topic, Wednesday night I was with a pal and vaguely discussing the virtues or good points we like in a female partner. You have probably never seen the UK 1990s sit-com, "Men Behaving Badly"? But looking back it reminds me of that. My pal started to list all the things a female must have going for her to either of us. I forget the rest of the list, but (on the sexism theme you raise), he ended, "Got to be interested in football of course". And without even thinking (watching a game), I answered quite seriously then, "Oh, yeah. Definitely she has to be into football." 🙂 We just took it as a given at the time. 😮
Perhaps you might have considered sending the above to Satori in a pm, Venetian, given that it is, as you say, totally off topic.
I bet Bin Ladden is sorry now he filled in that census form 😀
Hope that livened up the thread a little 🙂
I bet Bin Ladden is sorry now he filled in that census form 😀
Hope that livened up the thread a little 🙂
:D:D Yes, it's why I distrust such things - 😮 erk - but just filled one in!
Anyway, is this for real? Very interesting if so. The Dalai Lama of all people is said to be saying, [COLOR="DarkRed"]"Forgiveness doesn't mean forget what happened. If something is serious and it is necessary to take counter-measures, you have to take counter-measures." That's in the LA Times!
It reminds me of times I can't go into in detail, in the 1980s. I was a miniscule part of things, simply providing a home for Americans on their way to Pakistan and further East, and back, stopping off in London for the night, and they were supporting the mujahadeen against the Soviets (not the fighters, just the millions of refugees). But what they also couldn't "get" or quite agree with at the time was that scores of Tibetans would arrive to see the Dalai Lama asking for at least worded support against their fight with China, and he never gave it. They left (back to Tibet) in tears. And carried on fighting.
So the statement above, if accurate, is interesting. After all, he's seen surely as the world's Pacifist No. 1? Haven't seen the full quote yet .... But he qualifies his words saying "counter-measures should be done with compassion". All the same, "counter-measures" do not mean sit back with your pipe and slippers for the evening obviously....
So there's another 'quote'.
What precisely was he getting at? Not that it's essential to know as I wouldn't say he's the absolute voice of God in any way, but a lovely human with good opinions, who can (conceivably) be flawed.
V
An interesting article...
[url]We might ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bushs compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic.[/url]
An interesting article...
[url]We might ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bushs compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic.[/url]
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