I thought that the subject of "conspiracy theories" in general could make its own thread. This, since a thread initially on 9/11 at:
https://www.healthypages.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=70449
moved into subjects such as Skull and Bones (the secret society), and whether there were deliberate, misleading American conspiracies to begin the US entrance into WW II at Pearl Harbour, and into the Vietnam War in the Gulf of Tonkin alleged "attack".
I think this is an interesting piece in itself, an online article listing 33 - yes, 33 - conspiracies which are no longer "theory" but known to have been real. So who says those with an interest in these vitally important subjects are nutters? I find the article very well written, and it gives detail on all 33 real conspiracies:
Conspiracy theory is a term that originally was a neutral descriptor for any claim of civil, criminal or political conspiracy. However, it has come almost exclusively to refer to any fringe theory which explains a historical or current event as the result of a secret plot by conspirators of almost superhuman power and cunning. To conspire means “to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or to use such means to accomplish a lawful end.” The term “conspiracy theory” is frequently used by scholars and in popular culture to identify secret military, banking, or political actions aimed at stealing power, money, or freedom, from “the people”.
To many, conspiracy theories are just human nature. Not all people in this world are honest, hard working and forthcoming about their intentions. Certainly we can all agree on this. So how did the term “conspiracy theory” get grouped in with fiction, fantasy and folklore? Maybe that’s a conspiracy, just kidding. Or am I?
Skeptics are important in achieving an objective view of reality, however, skeptism is not the same as reinforcing the official storyline. In fact, a conspiracy theory can be argued as an alternative to the official or “mainstream” story of events. Therefore, when skeptics attempt to ridicule a conspiracy theory by using the official story as a means of proving the conspiracy wrong, in effect, they are just reinforcing the original “mainstream” view of history, and actually not being skeptical. This is not skeptism, it is just a convenient way for the establishment view of things to be seen as the correct version, all the time, every time. In fact, it is common for “hit pieces” or “debunking articles” to pick extremely fringe and not very populated conspiracy theories. This in turn makes all conspiracies on a subject matter look crazy. Skeptics magazine and Popular Mechanics, among many others, did this with 9/11. They referred to less than 10% of the many different conspiracy theories about 9/11 and picked the less popular ones, in fact, they picked the fringe, highly improbable points that only a few people make. This was used as the “final investigation” for looking into the conspiracy theories. Convenient, huh?
In fact, if one were to look into conspiracy theories, they will largely find that thinking about a conspiracy is associated with lunacy and paranoia. Some websites suggest it as an illness. It is also not surprising to see so many people on the internet writing about conspiracy theories in a condescending tone, usually with the words “kool-aid,” “crack pot,” or “nut job” in their articulation. This must be obvious to anyone that emotionally writing about such serious matter insults the reader more than the conspiracy theorist because there is no need to resort to this kind of behavior. It is employed often with an “expert” who will say something along the lines of, “for these conspiracies to be true, you would need hundreds if not thousands of people to be involved. It’s just not conceivable.”
I find it extremely odd that the assumption is on thousands of participants in a conspiracy. I, for one, find it hard to believe any conspiracy involving more than a handful of people but the fact remains that there have been conspiracies in our world, proven and not made up, that involved many hundreds of people. It’s not a matter of opinion, it’s a matter of fact.
V
Reading more slowly through that link in the previous post:
http://fkpolitics.wordpress.com/2010/01/04/33-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true-what-every-person-should-know/
... there are certainly a handful of known, proven, and factual conspiracies of large magnitude I'd never known of. How about the one numbered #16, "The Business Plot"? In 1933 a group of prominent and hugely wealthy American businessmen began planning a fascist-dictatorship coup against President Franklin D. Roosevelt and the White House. It's notable that among the plotters was the father of ex-President George H. Prescott Bush, the grand-father of the recent ex-President George Bush. Hmm. So that's their background, and the atmosphere in which they were raised ....
The alleged plotters all denied it, but they would, wouldn't they. The House McCormack-Dickstein Committee, investigating, did acknowledge the existence of the conspiracy. But no one was brought to trial, no doubt protected because of their huge financial-political standing.
16. The Business Plot: In 1933, group of wealthy businessmen that allegedly included the heads of Chase Bank, GM, Goodyear, Standard Oil, the DuPont family and Senator Prescott Bush tried to recruit Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler to lead a military coup against President FDR and install a fascist dictatorship in the United States. And yes, were talking about the same Prescott Bush who fathered one US President and grandfathered another one. Smedley Butler was both a patriot and a vocal FDR supporter. Apparently none of these criminal masterminds noticed that their prospective point man had actively stumped for FDR in 1932. Smedley spilled the beans to a congressional committee in 1934. Everyone he accused of being a conspirator vehemently denied it, and none of them were brought up on criminal charges. Still, the House McCormack-Dickstein Committee did at least acknowledge the existence of the conspiracy, which ended up never getting past the initial planning stages. Though many of the people who had allegedly backed the Business Plot also maintained financial ties with Nazi Germany up through Americas entry into World War II. In 1934, the Business Plot was publicly revealed by retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler testifying to the McCormack-Dickstein Congressional Committee. In his testimony, Butler claimed that a group of men had approached him as part of a plot to overthrow Roosevelt in a military coup. One of the alleged plotters, Gerald MacGuire, vehemently denied any such plot. In their final report, the Congressional committee supported Butlers allegations of the existence of the plot, but no prosecutions or further investigations followed, and the matter was mostly forgotten....
In a History Today article Clayton Cramer argued that the devastation of the Great Depression had caused many Americans to question the foundations of liberal democracy. Many traditionalists, here and in Europe, toyed with the ideas of Fascism and National Socialism; many liberals dallied with Socialism and Communism. Cramer argues that this explains why some American business leaders viewed fascism as a viable system to both preserve their interests and end the economic woes of the Depression.
In the link, there are clips apparently from a BBC documentary on this planned American coup.
That's just one of 33 genuine and large-scale conspiracies listed in that link; of course there are many more than 33. Yet we have conspiracy theory debunked again and again or called "historical curiosities". I'd say that they are hardly "curiosities" at the time that they are happening. For example, right now we still have the "WMD" excuse along with al-Qaeda cited as a reason to invade Iraq, and the clearly non-suicidal death of Dr. David Kelly.
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In the thread I began elsewhere on Skull and Bones aka The Order, a video interview with Antony Sutton details how members of Skull and Bones use the "Hegelian dialectic" - or create opposing factions and conflict, so that by "managing" conflict they can create their desired new outcome. Looking into the grandfather (S & B member) of the recent President Bush, I find that he was actively involved in business concerns which helped finance the creation of both the Nazi Party in Germany, and the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/MDbushPR.htm
The UK newspaper, The Guardian, has had an article detailing how the father and grandfather of the Bush Presidents financed German Nazism from its beginning in 1933 through to 1942 when assets of his German-Nazi holdings were seized. The Guardian supports the idea that Bush financed the rise to power of Adolf Hitler.
http://blackpoliticalthought.blogspot.com/2010/01/did-former-president-george-w-bushs.html
His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave laborers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy. The evidence has also prompted one former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor to argue that the late senator's action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
It is suggested that the Bush family fortune itself, upon which both Presidents rode into power, derived from profits made from backing German Nazism 1933-1942.
V