Sadly kaif, when i see all those ridiculous symbols at Christmas I feel that I'm not in a Christian country either. (Well, I like Christmas trees, they can be objects of grace, beauty and wonder, but as for those flashing Santas - what on earth have they to do with the birth of Jesus?) I agree with you esoecially about about the ridiculousness of those "cold weather" symbols, but isn't it Dubai that has a giant indoor ski slope too?
Judy
Judy
I agree with what you say but my point is that these are symbols of the celebration of Christmas and when contributors on this forum get so rattled by symbols of other cultures/religions in the UK they need to take this into account.
Also perhaps it would have been better for me to point out that there are nearly 100,000 British and Irish people in the UAE itself ( of which Dubai is a part in case people don't know ) most of whom do celebrate Christmas regardless of whether they do it for cultural reasons or religious.
They live in a Muslim country and they openly celebrate Christmas in a Muslim country. So when I was reacting to the contributor who was saying that why should Muslims be allowed to do this or that in the UK when Christians are not allowed to do the same, I used this illustration to make the point that the writer is wrong. There are many Christians who live in a Muslim country like the UAE who openly celebrate Christmas, and celebrate it using their outer symbols without hindrance.
Its a completely different matter whether the outer symbols they use are relevant to their faith's original teachings or not. That is a matter for Christians to sort out.
Kaif
So when I was reacting to the contributor who was saying that why should Muslims be allowed to do this or that in the UK when Christians are not allowed to do the same, I used this illustration to make the point that the writer is wrong. There are many Christians who live in a Muslim country like the UAE who openly celebrate Christmas, and celebrate it using their outer symbols without hindrance.
Its a completely different matter whether the outer symbols they use are relevant to their faith's original teachings or not. That is a matter for Christians to sort out.Kaif
I think we all know Dubai is a ridiculous example to use.
I am talking about preaching ones religion now, as I said before (without an answer from anyone) can you imagine us setting up stalls in countries such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan promoting Christianity...no way, no how would it be permitted. Yet towns all over Britain have these little stalls set up with leaflets on Islam being handed out to the unsuspecting public and a guy with a mega phone...when I see these people I am straight over there telling them how disrespectful they are, I then phone the police and tell them they're upsetting people and get them moved on, I actually did this twice in Oxford street just last week end.
The Granth Sahib is the holy book of the Sikhs. Its importance and status is so great that it holds the central place in any Sikh temple and Sikh worshippers prostate towards it when they enter their holy places.
Similarly for the Muslims the Quran is a holy revelation from God. Muslims are taught that it has to be handled and treated with the greatest respect and love.
I mention the above two to make the point that for other faiths these are not just 'books' of history or for information purposes, but serve as holy vessels that are sacrosanct.
Therefore when American soldiers have entered mosques in Iraq and trampled on Qurans under their feet, and idiots all over the world think that they are going to make a point by burning the Quran, they are stabbing at the heart of millions of faithful people for whom this is not a political symbol like a flag but a sacred part of their faith.
Kaif
My fury sunanda is in the fact that people feel they have to forgo their own longstandng British beiiefs in the fear they may offend or look like they are causing racial hatred. Whether it is a simple act of putting up a Christmas decoration outside of their home (just for interest, I don't like these gawdy things either,) but some do and if they have always succumbed to this type of thing then why should their views (no matter where they live) not be respected.] I personally respect anyones views but it should not be to the detriment of having to suppress your own, where is the justice in that. :035:
I think I shall have to let Holos reply to this. I wonder if she feels she was a victim of injustice.
The Granth Sahib is the holy book of the Sikhs. Its importance and status is so great that it holds the central place in any Sikh temple and Sikh worshippers prostate towards it when they enter their holy places.
Similarly for the Muslims the Quran is a holy revelation from God. Muslims are taught that it has to be handled and treated with the greatest respect and love.
I mention the above two to make the point that for other faiths these are not just 'books' of history or for information purposes, but serve as holy vessels that are sacrosanct.
Therefore when American soldiers have entered mosques in Iraq and trampled on Qurans under their feet, and idiots all over the world think that they are going to make a point by burning the Quran, they are stabbing at the heart of millions of faithful people for whom this is not a political symbol like a flag but a sacred part of their faith.Kaif
Just so!
My fury sunanda is in the fact that people feel they have to forgo their own longstandng British beiiefs in the fear they may offend or look like they are causing racial hatred.
Fury? I don't know of anyone who has had to forgo their 'longstanding British beliefs' for fear of offending anyone. There are definitely certain newspapers that are trying to convince me that it's happening though, and it seems as if they've convinced you.
It is entirely 'British' that we show respect for other people's religious traditions (admittedly that's not a longstanding British belief :)).
It is ironic how some here fear 'foreign' ways corrupting our idyllic Hovis advert way of life. There's hardly any need to worry about the threat to our British customs, clothing, food or speech patterns anymore as they've already been substituted for the American variety (and no-one seemed to mind!!).
By the way, putting gawdy Christmas decorations up all over one's house is not a longstanding British tradition. It came from America.
There are definitely certain newspapers that are trying to convince me that it's happening though, and it seems as if they've convinced you.
.
Could be the case Barafundle.
On another note, I am alarmed at the amount of sneaky supermarkets selling halal meat without labeling the products to make us aware. I for one do not want to be eating meat that hasn't be stunned, this news reported by the mail over the weekend upset me, I was completely unaware. I have to applaud the Mail on this one.
Well done to Giles for trying to get this thread back on topic, but I just remembered this post from Rosie, who might be interested to read this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2010/sep/20/halal-meat-the-truth
I've been away for a while, having recently become a new mum and trying to get into a routine...
:025: zzzzzzz
But perhaps it would've been best for me to stay away as I am absolutely DISGUSTED by some of the Islamophobic remarks going on here once again... Islamophobia is as WRONG as racism and xenophobia. Using a 'stereotypical' example here: if you're white and you get mugged by a black person, does that make all black people muggers? I'm in disbelief at the infantile and frankly ignorant attitudes, but I'm fully aware that the blame lies mostly at the doorstep of the newspapers which have a post-9/11 agenda.
I think it's time for a ritualistic Daily Mail burning.
I've posted a couple of photos of my beautiful little boy over on the pregnancy forum, whose dad is Muslim and is a HUMAN BEING WITH FEELINGS. Sorry for going so off topic, but I can't understand why people think ALL Muslims somehow have green scales under their human skin.
My husband has been cooking every meal for me and been waking up with me during the night-time feeds to do burping duty.
I am born and bred British and Britain is MY home TOO and I have the right to love whomever I choose and my son has the right to grow up without prejudice.
HP of all places ought to be free of such fear and hatred and I'm filled with dismay that it isn't.
I am immensely disappointed to find this negativity and blanket discrimination.
I have expressed some anger, but hope I've stayed within the bounds of respect.
I've been away for a while, having recently become a new mum and trying to get into a routine...
:025: zzzzzzz
But perhaps it would've been best for me to stay away as I am absolutely DISGUSTED by some of the Islamophobic remarks going on here once again... Islamophobia is as WRONG as racism and xenophobia. Using a 'stereotypical' example here: if you're white and you get mugged by a black person, does that make all black people muggers? I'm in disbelief at the infantile and frankly ignorant attitudes, but I'm fully aware that the blame lies mostly at the doorstep of the newspapers which have a post-9/11 agenda.
I think it's time for a ritualistic Daily Mail burning.
I've posted a couple of photos of my beautiful little boy over on the pregnancy forum, whose dad is Muslim and is a HUMAN BEING WITH FEELINGS. Sorry for going so off topic, but I can't understand why people think ALL Muslims somehow have green scales under their human skin.
My husband has been cooking every meal for me and been waking up with me during the night-time feeds to do burping duty.
I am born and bred British and Britain is MY home TOO and I have the right to love whomever I choose and my son has the right to grow up without prejudice.
HP of all places ought to be free of such fear and hatred and I'm filled with dismay that it isn't.
I am immensely disappointed to find this negativity and blanket discrimination.
I have expressed some anger, but hope I've stayed within the bounds of respect.
Well spoken Tigerlilly, my sentiments too!
Kaif
I think I shall have to let Holos reply to this. I wonder if she feels she was a victim of injustice.
How could it be injustice when it was totally MY decision?
I was reared to respect other people, including their belief systems, difference in race, culture, life style, economic status. But then living and travelling in other countries does help to promote that attitude.
I was the one who moved into their area. I find it funny that my voluntary respect for another's way of life is the issue! :rolleyes:
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