Paul, I'll take on the point about sciatica as I have a lot of experience in treating that. It needs to be treated as it is an irritation and sciatic-like troubles may be symptomatic of other MSK issues that may need to be addressed. Also pain is both physiologically and psychologically draining creating even more health issues. I wouldn't necessarily compare this to ticklish feet as a problem, which MG7 is expressing. But going back to sciatica, if it's a physical issue I find that it shifts quick, but if it has an underlining psychological reason (just say for example, to stop the client rushing around and doing too much) I think helping the client explore this situation is fine. But it's an exploration rather than a fixed formula.
Jnani, excellent you get my point and the humour behind my signature change. I'm sure you have found that just BEING with the client and getting on with the job (physical or energy work or listening or whatever) can be in itself empowering to the client.
To anyone reading this, in my own bias opinions :rolleyes: based on clinical experience, the more I do therapeutic work especially reflexology, the more I won't play the "parlour" game of the need to label and/or connect to some cosmic plan, why some points are more tender than others. What's more important is helping to facilitate homeostasis (Yin-Yang/nervous/hormonal balance etc), subtly stimulating self-healing mechanisms for the improvement of health and vitality.
Vitality being a very important as it means life and vigour. And this goes back to the potential misinterpretation of ticklish feet. It may simply be a reflection of vitality 😀
Thank you RP, you summed it beautifully!!!
Hi Jnani
That ties in with my understanding, which is why I found a new way of healing the inner divisional conflicts that arise through being unworthy into the wholeness that comes from being worthy.
Agreed, ticklish feet are not a problem to most people, but for those who have a real issue with being overtly ticklish, to dismiss it as unimportant and to tell them to accept and get on with it, does not help them, they need a solution to the problem that is creating suffering within their life experience.
The only person who can decide if something is an issue for them or not, is the person who is experiencing the ramifications of making that personal choice, it is immaterial if their problem is an aspect of our own life experience or not, if they say that they have a problem with something, then they have a problem that we should acknowledge and take seriously, if we do not believe that something is a problem, then we can't conceive a solution to it. 😉
As I have said in my last post accepting that we have chosen to be something or experience a way of being, does not change anything, there is nothing simple being born into a cast system or bondage or any judgmental system that tells you that you have to accept that you are not worthy of doing or being something, acceptance might help to keep the simplicity of keeping people in their place, but it does little for the individuals who are living their life experience in expression of this way of being!
The collective consciousness that was around following the experience of the last war requires something different to what is required now, the issues were here, but people were of the opinion that you just go on with it, make do and mend and all that, they just wanted to create normality in place of the destruction that had been in existence. 🙂
That is the whole point Jnani, we now have a choice and a solution to the problems that arise form our core beliefs, we no longer have to put up with things and make do, or try and ignore them like we had to do, we can be whole, we can be healed into wholeness, we can be re-harmonised and balanced, there is a choice and a solution in existence now. 🙂
We are talking of two different things Paul. I am talking about therapy in general, you are talking about your own method.
I am talking about of acceptance....you understanding is that is way of controlling people. Talk about missing the mark!
Awareness happens healing happens...some go digging some don't have to.
Direct jumping into whole ness happens....not necessarily by analysing and by accessing self worth or lack of it. Therapy has a place and for some issues necessary....but for every small little thing....an explanation is offered...the therapy becomes "parlour game" as RP puts it? Whole ness is fully available everywhere ubiquitously.
Whole ness is that can happen amidst all problems, all chaos, all that life throws at you...not by fighting but by holding your ground with acceptance. Ito is no control, no keeping people in their place. Bizarrly you have mentioned caste system amongst some other presumptions such as telling people to get on with their problems....if they come for help. You have lost me with some of the things you come up with.
No matter how whole you become life is a mystery, it remains that way....the more whole ness deeper the mystery and fun of it. Folly of therapy and therapist that they start putting everything in a box and label everything. Whole ness living in a box of self worthiness....it may seem the way you write about it.
Life demands acceptance. What choice did you have when you were born, where, when in family culture you were born?
You have scattered in so many directions in your reply...
You talk about Choice. Choice mean power in modern context. Choice is empowerment as far as your belief system goes....acceptance is subjugation and control.
There is freedom beyond choices too. Freedom does not depend on choices. Choices take you so far....then comes a territory choices are neither important nor necessary
One indulges in choices...then things slip deeper....
You speak like there is choice for the first time...have heard that before. People talk like that all the time, as if they just found something new. Everything is eternally available. All experiments in being have been done millions of times before us. Millions down the ages have known the tricks you just twigged. For you it might be a now thing personally that you have discovered there is a way to change. It has happened in every corner of the world, every culture that people have been finding freedom.
Freedom from mind is as ancient as the quest to be free. Everyone banging on about choices is however new. Choice is not synonymous with freedom. Choice has become a concept. True freedom just is. It is what it is. It does not know if it is free or bound. It is what it is. Relaxed, at home, not slave to this concept or that, pure simplicity.
Nelson Mandela a typical example of living his freedom even In a prison. That's acceptance. Through acceptance alone great change happens. He made a choice to relax. You would never hear him talk about choice as a concept. He lived it. It happened organically. When you are living your freedom, there is no mention of choices. It is spontaneous, unlike a cerebral process. It happens seamlessly.
Good luck and good bye on this thread my friend
Hi Reiki Pixie
So when you give someone a massage and come across a combination of muscular problems under your hands, do you not assess that against you understanding of what these symptoms have show to be before? Do you not then formulate a plan to help them overcome the problem that you are treating? If so then you are playing the therapy parlour game.
Reflexology is taught these days as a means of treating the body through the feet, but if we trace it back to its origin, then we find a medical intuitive who devised a means of diagnosing what is going on in the body through the feet with remarkable accuracy, but then that would be therapists parlour games would it not?
The majority of therapists that I have encountered are people who have chosen to help people and whilst the tools that they are taught are often not perfect, they generally do the best they can with what they have been given to help alleviate people's pain and suffering.
Hi Jnani
An inner conflict arises when two or more opposing thought patterns and/or beliefs arise at the same time, wholeness is the absence of conflict, conflict is the absence of wholeness, in my experience of healing self and others, accepting that we have a conflict does not magically heal the divisional conflict and create wholeness, it is a step in the process, not the whole process.
As for choices, yes I do perceive that we all have choices which start before we come here, but with personal choice comes personal responsibility.
One of the main obstacles that I have encountered when treating people with OCD surrounding a fear (a fear of being tickled can be as powerful and debilitating as any other fear that we can create), is to help them to embrace the fact that they do actually have a choice, as their whole reality is based upon a belief that they do not have a choice, the conflict is real for them and I would be interested in hearing how telling them to simply accept the fear is going to heal the inner conflict so that they can become whole?
Hi musicguy7
Whilst I appreciate that for the majority of people being tickled is not a big deal and can be perceived as a pleasant experience, there are people who have a real phobia surrounding being tickled, they need to be taken seriously because these problems are real to them. 🙂
Paul, You are so centered on being "right" here that you totally, completely, and blatantly missed the whole point of what I have said. I never denied that it IS a real issue for some people OR when it is that it needs to be worked with. Never said anything of the sort. I said, when a person is ticklish, work with it, possibly use it...notice I said "possibly" because it won't work with everyone, instead of automatically making it a bad thing. Thats all I said. There is a therapy out there that uses it. I've had it done. Its wonderful and its not for everyone. But it is for more than those who as therapists will never try it because they were taught ticklishness is negative. Your seem to be wanting to take every aspect and every angle and put it in a tiny, pre-prescribed box with no variables. Sorry, I don't go for that when it comes to everyone is different. I was trying to encourage other therapists to open their tiny little box and explore outside the box and those who are ticklish to try and embrace it and use it to their advantage because its a natural thing. Not enforce such ideas, not demand them, not putting it out there in a perfect little box and say, "This is it! This is for you! Try it! Do it!. Just putting thoughts out there to encourage. 😎
Hi musicguy7
Paul, You are so centered on being "right" here that you totally, completely, and blatantly missed the whole point of what I have said. I never denied that it IS a real issue for some people OR when it is that it needs to be worked with. Never said anything of the sort. I said, when a person is ticklish, work with it, possibly use it...notice I said "possibly" because it won't work with everyone, instead of automatically making it a bad thing. Thats all I said.
Personally I have never been taught that being ticklish or tickling is a bad thing and I have not said that it is on this or any other thread as far as I am aware. However you did say:
There is no meaning behind ticklish feet. It just is. Some are and some are not.
For the majority of people that statement is true and I include myself in that, but I am also aware from the type of work that I do that this does not apply to everyone.
Rather than trying to place everyone in the same box as you are implying, I am perhaps not very well attempting to say that the box of 'no meaning' does not fit everyone and we need to be aware that some people do have an underlying cause behind their aversion to being tickled.
That said, then if you would like to start a thread about tickling therapy as opposed to if there is a meaning behind people having ticklish feet, then I would enjoy reading what you have to say about it from your experiences. 🙂
Paul, I actually have considered that...starting a new thread. But again, you changed what we were talking about. There is a difference between the meaning of ticklish feet and a person's aversion to it. Two totally different things there.
Hi Musicguy7
Threads like most things have a tendency to evolve and diversify. I came into the thread in response to Jnani, from that perspective having an aversion to being tickled that surrounds something in the past that has set up the aversion, would be the meaning behind the ticklish feet, clear the underlying meaning and the heightened fear that the sensation of being tickled bring forth and the tickling issue will become manageable or disappear.
Some people have ticklish feet; some don't. Some people like; some don't, all to various degrees. Some people like broccoli; some don't. There is not a reason or mystery or cure for everything. "Let's find out why you don't like broccoli and fix it." 🙂 It is obvious that people who have been severely tickled as children hate being tickled because of their past. On the same hand, there are people who have been severely tickled as a child who hated it then and for some reason has turned to loving it later, because of that experience...you can't put it into your little tidy box. Its not that hard and it doesn't need to be made that difficult like it seems you are tending it to be. If you look at the vast majority of therapists AND the vast majority or massage information, papers, teachings, ticklishness is a negative and I say again demonized factor that has some hidden meaning. Sorry, I don't buy it.
That is fine musicguy7, if you do not believe that some people who have been traumatised through the medium of tickle have not got an underlying problem (much the same as any trauma has the potential to be internalised as a problem), then you are free to believe what you choose to believe, obviously these people would not normally go to physical therapist who cannot address and help them to overcome their underlying problem, especially when what they perceive as a problem is not perceived to be a problem by the therapist.
Also if you do not believe that people who have experienced nerve damage which can create an overbearing exaggeration of diverse physiological sensations anywhere in the body do not have a problem, then again that is your choice, personally I prefer to be open minded in my dealing with the people who choose to come to me, perhaps it is because I am open to treat this sort of things and take them seriously, that has given me the opportunity to do so.
well what a deep thread from such a simple question! I see no reason why holistic therapists should be able to categorise their clients exact.y any more than doctors can. Thats one reason why diagnosis is a skill learned over many years of practice. People are different. No medical book can cover every eventuality.... so I I am nut surprised a holistic book cannot either.
Hi Reiki Pixie
So when you give someone a massage and come across a combination of muscular problems under your hands, do you not assess that against you understanding of what these symptoms have show to be before? Do you not then formulate a plan to help them overcome the problem that you are treating? If so then you are playing the therapy parlour game.
Reflexology is taught these days as a means of treating the body through the feet, but if we trace it back to its origin, then we find a medical intuitive who devised a means of diagnosing what is going on in the body through the feet with remarkable accuracy, but then that would be therapists parlour games would it not?
The majority of therapists that I have encountered are people who have chosen to help people and whilst the tools that they are taught are often not perfect, they generally do the best they can with what they have been given to help alleviate people's pain and suffering.
Hi
Unless you are playing devils advocate I think you are missing the point.
Helping someone with the example of MSK problems with proper therapeutic knowledge and experience of A&P is different from the reflexologist who feed clients abstract statements based on generalised opinions. That's what I mean by parlour games. Clients are just as bad as many perceived reflexology as some kind of instant "read out" system and are pushing the practitioner to do some kind of diagnosis. I have personally spoke to many a reflexologist about this as they have told me how uncomfortable they are with this attitude that the public have of reflexology and expressed how they feel it's unethical to play this game. Even the Association of Reflexologist say that reflexologists should not do medical diagnosis.
Also majority of reflexologists in this country are trained to a quite a basic level and thank goodness for CPD courses to fill the gaps. 9 months part-time at college is hardly going to develop a highly proficient medical intuitive!! It's not the same as many years of study and work placement in a hospital guided by experienced mentors and supervisors. As you have made a comment about the history of reflexology, many pioneers of modern reflexology (ca 100 years) had medical backgrounds, and it is this mental focus of experience and knowledge that allows for healing to occur, whether focused intent, placebo effect or not.
As for my techniques since you asked, say for treating a client with sciatic/like issues, I'm happy to answer. Basically I treat each client on an individual basis. I don't perform formulated patterns as in 'press here for 90 seconds' and 'stroke there 10 times' nor do I make statements like "You have fear in your life that comes from childhood and that is the cause of your problem!". (You can say that to most people and there would be an element of truth that makes it believable. The Barnum Effect.) I prefer to feel and do. Admittedly based on modern A&P and TCM with lots of experience, as form helps to create function. But if a technique doesn't work, I have this tendency to spontaneously invent a more useful technique via creative imagination. I'm talking about sometimes stuff I was never taught. Call it a heuristic if you like 😀 Parlour games are not necessary or needed :p
Paul, yes, nerve damage..I agree...again, you keep mixing things up from ticklishness of feet to aversion to. I have noticed in each of your posts, to me or others, that you are so set on being "right", THE guru of all things therapeutic, that you do not read, really read what people are saying. You just proved my point of everything is not in your tight little box. I have never had any issues with clients or complaints of anyone I think mainly I don't set myself up as having all the answers and in fact have told clients when you run into someone who has all the answers to run the other way! Because no one does and I freely and openly admit that. Anyone can take something simple and make it complicated. The hard thing to do is simplify it. As you can see by just about every person's response to you...you have taken what they said...including me and either generalized it or didn't really listen in the first place, or made "jumps" to what they are saying.
Please don't take this as a personal attack...I don't even know you to make it personal and I mean no offense, but this thread could have been alot shorter if you would really read what is being said. You've misquoted me --by your response to me--on more than one occasion here.
Hi Reiki Pixie
Yes I was playing the devils advocate, I know that you are intuitive and you know that reflexology is a form of intuitive healing, you will have had occasions when you knew what needed doing before you laid hands upon someone and other times you will have known that this or that needed doing and altered what you normally did to fulfill the requirements of the individual within that session. 🙂
You say that you are adaptable and you like a lot of intuitive practitioners are capable of creating something in the moment when needed, sometime this is formed from your training and sometimes it flies in the face of it, but it usually works non the less, but there will of been times when you encountered someone who has a long term condition that although the symptoms are being presented as physical and responds well on the table, they reappear by the next time you see them, the reason for this is that they have an underlying cause that is not physical and can't be addressed in a physiological way.
I am certain that if you where talking to someone about how massage and reflexology could help them with their problems and they said to you that they could not possibly conceive considering either because of something that happened to them in the past, which means that they have a real problem with the sensation of being tickled so they will not allow anyone to touch them under any circumstances, that you would not just dismiss it, you might not be able to help them with your current understanding, but if that understanding also understood the mind body connection and how to change it, then you would be in a position to offer advice and more, then those things that you currently perceive as parlor games would no longer be a game, they would become another useful tool in your expanding tool box. 🙂
Hi Musicguy7
You see you do accept that there are exceptions to the general rule, that is all I have been saying all along, a rule is only a rule until we encounter something which does not fit it, then we have to accept that it is a general rule but as there are exceptions, then it is not set in stone, it is the exception that I have been emphasising that which breaks the rule.
Hi Tashanie
That is a good point, most healers and therapists are encouraged not to diagnose, though the reality is that anyone who wishes to sort something out, needs an understanding of what they are dealing with, this requires assessment and diagnosis which as you say grows with experience.
I know when I am teaching, I try and convey the understanding that has come form my own experiences, though I cannot give them the experience itself, that is something that will come with time and practice. 🙂