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Difference between La Stone Therapy and Hot Stone Therapy???

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supermummy
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I have just completed my massage course and without wanting to run before I can walk I am just looking into what therapies I can add to my massage in the future. I just wondered what the difference between La Stone and Hot Stone actually is or is it just like a brand name and a generic name?

Thanks in advance Vanessa x

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cola
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RE: Difference between La Stone Therapy and Hot Stone Therapy???

Yes LaStone is a brand name, hot stone therapy is a generic name (as is hot stone massage), but there is a bit more to it.

LaStone were the first people to introduce hot stones into a massage table environment, way back in 1993, yes lots have taken it on since then adding bit and loosing bits, but LaStone were the original developers. What they teach really is a therapy, it's not just a massage. They're trainers go through a lot of education to become trainers, with contining education required to remain trainers (so many other trainers go do one course, develop their own version and teach that happily ever after without ever updating their skills, certainly one way to do it, but I'd rather my trainer keeping updated with the latest developments.

LaStone course are longer and therefore more expensive than most other hot stone courses, but worth it. I've done training with LaStone, and with some other trainers, and I still recommend LaStone in preference to anyone else, they know the stuff and they understand and respect the stones better than anyone else, IMHO.

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fozzyo
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RE: Difference between La Stone Therapy and Hot Stone Therapy???

Thanks for that Cola - a great response. One question, a clarification really. My understanding was that La Stone was the first treatment to combine hot and cold stones. I thought Hot Stone treatments had been around longer - hasn't it been used in traditional Japanese Massage for example?

Thanks
Mat

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cola
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RE: Difference between La Stone Therapy and Hot Stone Therapy???

Yes, hot stones used for massage and placement have been around for ages, many traditional healing systems use them, which was why I said "LaStone were the first people to introduce hot stones into a massage table environment" massage table environment being the important difference, sort of the difference betweena mud wrap on a massage tableand going to a thermal pool with mud you cover yourself in (though I've seen a few spas where they give you the mud to do it yourself as a creative outlet.....)

LaStone do use hot and cold stones, but once you start getting into working with stones for therapeutic uses rather than just a fluff spa treatment, you realise you need cold, it can just work on the heat pack/cold pack level - you don't put heat on inflamed areas you use cold, might not feel as friendly, but it feels better afterwards 🙂 Quite a few "hot stone" courses cover using cold stones, though I think LaStone do it in the most depth (they have an advanced course which is almost all working with cold stones which builds on what is covere in the LaStone basic course).

As I mentioned before, not many hot stone course providers offer advanced courses, they just present hot stones as a spa fluff routine, you certainly can work with them like that, but they can do so much more - sort of the same thing as using an aromatherapy blend off theshelf compared with customised aromatherapy blending for individual treatments. LaStone do have advanced training, and even their basic 4 day course is a lot more information and techniques than you get in the commonly available 2 day courses.

I'm not familiar with every stone course out there, someone else may be doing it very well too, ( [link= http://www.journey2theheart.com]www.journey2theheart.com[/link] look like they may have good courses but they're in America)

If you are after course that gives you a stroke sheet of how to do a hot stone massage, you don't need LaStone (though their stroke sheet is great) but if you have any interest in going beyond a basic stroke sheet, LaStone can provide the info and techniques.

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Nicola C
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i thot la stone used cold stones as well as hot could somone let me know if im right?

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cola
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Nicola C, you're right. If you read the post directly above yours it says

LaStone do use hot and cold stones

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grizelda
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Thermal Stone, Hot Stone, LA stone, Japanese stone therapies are all the same. This therapy uses hot and cold stones. hot for pain and relaxation and cold for inflammation. One cannot use hot stones on the face so this treatment hot and cold. I use "Japanese Stone Therapy" in my ads, it seems to sell the treatment so much better

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ro§ie
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sure you can use hot stones on the face.

i see them all as the same and it is important to use hot and cold stones, on all parts of the body.

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Alan D
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I’ve read this thread with interest and was wondering whether anyone is able to compare the LaStone courses with the hot (and cold) stone courses offered by Jing ([DLMURL="http://www.jingmassage.com/hot_stone.html"] http://www.jingmassage.com/hot_stone.html [/DLMURL]) ?
I’ve done other Jing courses and been very impressed by them. Their six-day course costs £475 plus VAT. They state that they teach “a fusion of specialised stone techniques developed in New York City ... a fusion of Eastern and Western advanced stone techniques”.
The LaStone course claims that they are “the original” and based on “the traditional healing practices of the Native American Indians”. They offer a three and a half day course for £428 plus VAT (which is cheaper in total than Jing, but more expensive if one compares on a cost-per-day basis).

I was wondering whether anyone had trained with both providers, or received treatment from both a LaStone therapist and a Jing therapist and could compare the two? (I’ve received treatments from a Jing therapist but not from a LaStone therapist.)

Thanks

Alan

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cola
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From the jing web page
Everything you need to know about stone massage. There is no need for expensive additional training after this course.
That's a pretty arrogant comment! It looks like they're trying to discredit the option of advanced training that others may offer.

If you're happy with the Jing courses you've done, the stone course will probably be good; if you want the option of advanced courses possibly in the future, a course that claims to be everything you will ever need to know about stone massage with no need for more training isn't going to provide that option. When I am interested in a modality, I usually just do the entry level course with the option to continue to a full qualification, rather than some weekend course at a community college where it is not recognised as part of a formal qualification and if I want to continue with that modality, I have to repeat almost the same material in some more structured more advanced course. Sometimes I realise I'm not really interested in the modality after I've done the entry level course, but I'm usually glad I had the option. (eg with reflexology I had trouble with my thumb from day one, but had signed up for a 48hr course, an 8hr course would probably been enough info, but I would've wondered if I just needed more practice and my thumb would settle down after some more class time, but I found out my thumb really is not a suitable structure for reflexology.

The basic LaStone course is fairly generic, but teaches you all you need to know to be able to work with the stone safely and efficiently, but it doesn't go into a huge amount of deep tissue/beauty therapy/energy work/spa/aromatherapy with the stones, because not everyone is interested in all of those things, so there is an additional deep tissue course you can do etc.

I've recently done more courses with LaStone, and the Native American angle doesn't get that much more time than other traditional people using hot stones. Maybe it gets stressed more with the UK education because it makes it more exotic? Native American traditions in the US don't make a treatment exotic, it seems to mainly scare off the Bible Belt people. LaStone do have Native American specific courses if you want to learn that tradition, but the basic 3.5 - 4 day course is not a pre-requisite for it.

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Alan D
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Cola

Thanks for the information. My particular interest (as a therapist) is in the use of hot stones to treat soft tissue injuries, where the client finds conventional deep tissue techniques uncomfortably painful. Presumably this would mean taking the LaStone ‘deep stone’ course after the introductory course.

Regards

Alan

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cola
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The LaStone [DLMURL="http://www.lastonetherapy.com/View_Course.asp?int_KeyValue=21"]DeepStone Therapy[/DLMURL] course is almost all cold stones, and you need a good knowledge of anatomy insertions etc, it's pretty heavy duty.

I think LaStone in the UK is going through some changes at the moment, class schedules may be a bit of a challenge

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cola
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The LaStone changes in the UK seem to have settled - there is a new UK LaStone website now...

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Patchouli
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Cola

I don't know if you have any connection with this site.

There doesn't appear to be any info worth noting and if you hover over any the headings running down the page on the left hand side the word complImentary rather than complEmentary come up.

Also I note there are some links and there is one for a chauferre company:confused:.

Patchouli

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 cola
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No, I've no connection to the website. I am a LaStone therapist, but I'm not even in the UK. I know there was a big reorganisation with LaStone in many countries last year and noticed that the main LaStone site had changed the UK link. I'd mentioned previously about challenges for LaStone courses in the UK and thought I'd update that info since it looked like a change in the situation, maybe I did it a bit too soon. I'm sure it will get a bit more info on there fairly quickly, all the place holders seem to be in place.

I've done LaStone training and other stone training, and I've seen a lot of videos on stone training, it's, to put it mildly, a bit of a hobby. In my experience LaStone has the best info available. Lots of other stone courses use the LaStone manual as their manual (someone mentioned some ITEC course using it in another thread).

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abc123
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Hot & Cold Stone Therapy

Hi guys..
I actually am one of those ''horrible'' trainers that Cola has so little faith for....
I am trained in both La Stone style and 'the other version of hot stones', like everyone is calling it here.....
What I would like to say, is that you should really do a little bit of research before deciding whats better, whats not!
La Stone is a brand, period!
Mary Nelson is the founder of this american brand. Yes, their trainers are very good, but what you learn, together with the bells, incense and fethers, it is indeed very holistic and spa style, or isn't it?....I also work as a spa trainer, and that were we used to send some of the therapists.....
But where is Lastone nowadays????
Their courses suddenly dropped from 5 days to 2....surely, if they really believed in what they were teaching they wouldn't have simply cut their routine off just to keep up with the market...?????
Hot & Cold stones Therapy has existed since time to time, Lastone hasn't created it....
I have personally trained in Italy with proper volcan stones, and in China with Jade.........
All this to simply say, BE CAREFUL of what happens and goes on out there!
Sadly there is a big market, which makes it harder to anyone looking for higly professional courses....just ask questions, it is in your rights!
I would never feel offended if students have to ask me how long have I been offering this or that, or training....if anything I am proud to say the truth!
On a final note, I have nothing against Lastone, if not admiration for what they have created, but....give some of us some credit, we probably have more experience without launching a brand....
Have a nice day!
x

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lesleymasterson
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LaStone We are not just a Hot Stone Massage Company

I have just taken over the UK buisness Unit for LaStone in the UK and myself and Anna Spaul are the only certified LaStone instructors in the UK now.
The main difference between us and other trainers is that we teach Geo-thermal therapy - we teach how temperature, hot and cold, affects the body, and we use stones as the medium which we intoduce that temperature within a treatment.
We haven't cut our courses from 2 days to 5 days, we never taught over 5 days, our signature course, Original Body is and always has been taught over 4 days, the 4th day finishing about 2pm. We do a 2 day course aimed at spas who do a basic 50min treatment, but this still includes Geothermal therory which makes us who we are.
We are passionate about both the Stones we use within the treatments we give and the effect of how that temperature reacts both on a physical but also a mental and spiritual level as well.
We also teach much about the energy of not only the Stones but of the universe around us, and we also teach the science of what we do. You can then go away and chose how you use your knowledge.
Please look at our new Website and do contact us if we can give you anymore information about why you should use us as the next step on your road of knowledge , we are stone walkers and we hope you will walk our path with us.
We are also starting a new Stone equipment site which you will find deails of on .Our mission is to bring the highest quality stones of all shapes and sizes, of many types, at an affordable cost. We aim to honour both mother earth for allowing us to use her bounty in this way, the therapists who use our stones, and the clients who receive the product of both our training and our stones, by being as ethical as we possibly can.

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lesleymasterson
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LaStone Website

Sorry I meant to say something about the website.
We have had to start from scratch with a lot of things since we took over LaStone and getting the website right is taking time, but we wanted to get it live as soon as possible so therapists knew where to find us.
It is improving week by week, and more and more info is going on. We are having a members only section with info and offers, also a newly designed "find a therapist" , but it all takes time.
The reason there are strange links, is we joining together with the other users of our website manager so we can help each other to climb the Google ladder. It doesn't hurt us or them to link each other, so I can't see any problem. You only look at the links that interest you anyway.
Keep looking at the site and email if you see any glaringly obvious mistakes and we will right them.
thanks lesley masterson

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lesleymasterson
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Hi .As from this year I am now running LaStone in the UK. I have read a couple if things that aren't strictly true. We haven't cut our training from 5 days to 2 , as well as our Original Body Course which has always been 4 days we now teach, a 2 day course, which offers a 50min spa treatment. This still has the geo-thermal-training but does not give the indepth training we teach for prescriptive treatments in our OB, it also does not have the same level of energy work.

Also we are not a "brand" Mary Nelson has trade marked the name of her hot and cold stone massage therapy to stop people copying her methods and saying they are teaching a LaStone course. This protects both us as a company and the therapists who train, as they know when they are going on a genuine LaStone training course.
We respect other forms of Stone training as long as they adhere to the same high standards as we do, and recognise the necessity of using both hot and cold temperature in the treatments that they teach.
As with all new beginnings, things take time, and mistakes and errors are made and have to be righted. If you see any thing you think we have missed on our website, please let us know and we will change it.

As soon as we find good venues,we will be posting dates for courses and refresher days, so please bear with us and keep checking. Lesley Masterson

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cola
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I actually am one of those ''horrible'' trainers that Cola has so little faith for....
I am trained in both La Stone style and 'the other version of hot stones', like everyone is calling it here.....

Why the quotes round "horrible"? I never used that word. Have I trained with you???
Why the quotes around 'the other version of hot stones'? That phrase doesn't appear anywhere else, and as for THE other version of hot stones? Sorry, there are a LOT of different versions of hot stones, lots of different versions of stone therapy - as I said before, I've investigated quite a few, doing the training and/or vidoes and/or getting treatments. Other than saying that "That's a pretty arrogant comment!" about the learn-everyting-you-will-ever-need-to-know-in-2-days comment (which I would say about any 2 day course that made that claim, be it about lymphatic drainage, stone therapy or sports massage, or any other specialised technique) I've not bothered to say how good/bad other training is, just that in my experience, LaStone has been the best. I'm sure there are some wonderful stone therapy trainers out there that haven't had anything to do with LaStone (done their course/used their manual), I just haven't found them (I'm not really actively looking for something better than LaStone anymore, I've seen too many things that are so far from the level of information LaStone present that I can't be bothered, I still watch demos at expos etc, get any material I can, but I'm not prepared to risk money on substandard courses these days)

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abc123
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This site is called 'Healthypages' isn't it???
People are free to express their opinion and receive/offer advice regarding complementary medicine and holistic therapy, and there certainly shouldn't be a need for bickering or similar.....don't you agree Cola???
Have a great day everyone and keep up the hard work
x

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cola
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'Bickering'? I asked what you meant by putting "horrible" in quotes - you did use my name in the same sentence, so I assumed you were directing it at me and I hadn't used the word "horrible", with or without quotes. I hardly consider asking a question bickering. I was interested to find out why you were trying to put words in my posts that I hadn't used. Of course people are entitled to express opinions, but that doesn't mean they are entitled to misquote someone.

There are poor trainers in stone therapy out there, there are mediocre trainers in stone therapy out there, there are wonderful trainers of stone therapy out there. In my experience, LaStone trainers have all been in the wonderful category. There may be a poor LaStone trainer out there, but with the controls they seem to put on their instructors, someone would be fairly safe to expect to receive quality instruction from a LaStone instructor - one of the benefits of it being a brand name.

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Essence99
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I'm a bit confused. After reading abc123's post I re-read all the posts to see what Cola had said. All I can see is that she has highly praised the LaStone courses - maybe I missed something. Cola said nothing about "horrible" trainers.

My confusion was why did abc123 seem to be directing her comments at Cola?

Yes the forum is for sharing opinions etc but when the posts seem to be aimed at one person then that's different and can start to get a bit messy.

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healthykim
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I am a bit confused as well.

Isn't abc123 just giving us some good advice from both sides of the coin as the actual original thread question is 'Difference between Lastone...' ?

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cola
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Thanks Essence99, that's exactly why I asked for clarification - my name was used and I seemed to be misquoted to discredit my input (which has been a bit on this thread :)) Then I get told it's bickering! :rolleyes:

If there had been no mention of me, no misquoting, I probably wouldn't have even bothered replying, the rest of the post was just another view, that repeated quite a few of the points I'd already mentioned (like the Native American angle seem to have been emphasised in the UK training, maybe because it is viewed as exotic? (the feathers etc comment) and hot stones have been used prior to LaStone, just no-one else had been doing it on a massage table in a clinic/spa environment)

I can't figure out the shock horror at a brand name really - school names are registered, and if they expand they will trademark them (if they haven't already). Jing is a recognised brand name for courses because they seem to have a good reputation for the quality of their training. LaStone is an internationally recognised name in stone therapy. Jing isn't internationally recognised, and Jing isn't limited to stone therapy classes, doesn't make it less of a brand name. (I'm only using Jing since they were mentioned in this thread) Brand names mean something, people expect a standard associated with a brand name, be it good or bad.

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abc123
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Ladies,I do apologiase if in any way I have offended anyone....
The only reason why I mention the member's name is because ther majority of posts were answers by such member, nevertheless in a very informative way, but never was or is intended at one person in an unprofessional way.
'Horrible' very ironically to group all the comments regarding unprofessional/not as good us/blablabla stone's training out there.
'Bickering'? Probably used the wrong term.....
However, once more have a great day and let's all focus more on the actual holistic issues rather then each others comments.

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healthykim
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Well said shemanta!

Where do you lecture? Can you recommend courses? I would love to try the jade stones.

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nefertiti
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Jing and Lastone course attendee

Having no business connection to either company and considering the financial commitment.

I've been on both the La stone original body and Jing Massage courses. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the Jing course is far superior, and I would recommend them to anyone for any of their courses.

I attended the original stone body course with Jane Scrivener which concentrated on cleansing the room with smudge sticks, energy lines and moving round the couch in a particular direction. There was an Opening spiral and poncey bits that I think most peps will not understand or be interested in unless they are deeply spiritual; the technique was was mostly effleurage. I spent £1500 with equipment accommodation and course fees and I never had the confidence to do a treatment. I would need further courses to give more complete treatment.

The Jing course however concentrated on actual application of the stones, and true to their advertising was a complete course including deep tissue and trigger point location and treatment; I am now confident and am loving my client response.

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cola
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Jane Scrivner now has her own Jane Scrivner Stone classes, she is no longer associated with LaStone.

I've not done any LaStone classes in the UK, and haven't found the classes to be heavy on smudging or energy lines; moving around the table in a particular direction was followed because the stroke sheet goes in that direction (you can't have people doing different things in a class, you follow the stroke sheet directions so everyone is doing the same thing). I've done a few different classes with Mary Nelson that developed LaStone, so I've experienced it at the source so to speak. As I said before, there seemes to have been more of a leaning on the Native American angle in the UK than in America. Maybe that's gone with Jane Scrivner?

That's great that you can recommend the Jing class, I don't think I've ever seen a negative comment about any of their classes (other than my comment that saying 2 days is enough to know everything is a bit dubious, but that's marketing speak for you, that's about their promotional material, not the actual class, plus the class is now up to 4-6 days, and they have added an advanced class! looks like 2 days isn't enough to learn everything you need to know).

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0neeye
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Jane Scrivner now has her own Jane Scrivner Stone classes, she is no longer associated with LaStone.

I've not done any LaStone classes in the UK, and haven't found the classes to be heavy on smudging or energy lines; moving around the table in a particular direction was followed because the stroke sheet goes in that direction (you can't have people doing different things in a class, you follow the stroke sheet directions so everyone is doing the same thing). I've done a few different classes with Mary Nelson that developed LaStone, so I've experienced it at the source so to speak. As I said before, there seemes to have been more of a leaning on the Native American angle in the UK than in America. Maybe that's gone with Jane Scrivner?

That's great that you can recommend the Jing class, I don't think I've ever seen a negative comment about any of their classes (other than my comment that saying 2 days is enough to know everything is a bit dubious, but that's marketing speak for you, that's about their promotional material, not the actual class, plus the class is now up to 4-6 days, and they have added an advanced class! looks like 2 days isn't enough to learn everything you need to know).

Dear Cola,
I am about to take my exams in May 2009 with ITEC Hot Stones
I was wondering if you can recall any questions from your exams?

Best regards

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