RE: Heavenly dance
The fundies, who are behind the violence, proclaim music and dance as sinful.
The same in early Christianity.
The Sufi's are very much like the Jain's in their belief in non-violence, they are very much in the heart of love. I found a wonderful article yesterday and a Sufi's comments on Guru's which resonated with my own heart of love. I will post a link.
I learned that Sufism was often attacked by Islamic fundamentalists right from the earliest times. Hence a lot of their poetic vocabulary is symbolic: 'the beloved' refers to God not to an earthly romantic attachment.
Yes it is written that they are Gnostics just like the early Christian Gnostics that were also called heretics. Yes, the lover and the beloved and the sacred union with the divine. However, it is also easy to forget that GOD loves through man hence why the sacred physical temple is so important. I can recommend a lovely book called 'The Way of Love' which is a story based upon the life of Rumi.
PS Here is one of Alexius comments on my thread about Sufism.
"Defining Sufism: here is one definition. There is a hadith (the Jibrail Hadith) that has the religion consist of three elements: 'Islam' (acceptence of God's will), 'Iman' (faith) and 'Ihsan'. Ihsan is defined as acting as if you can see God, as God can certainly see you. It is said that the aim of Sufism is to attain perfect Ihsan - a constant awareness of God's presense in one's life, and confirmation of the articles of Faith through personal experience. In which case Sufism is Gnostic, rather than Existential."
So the term Gnostic comes up again GOD being the living experience, hand in hand, side by side. In many ways the Sufi mystics are like mystics of any other tradition that promotes that the oneness with GOD is found in the heart.
being love
Kim xx
RE: Heavenly dance
Here is a wonderful article on the Sufi Tradition.
He talks about those seeking Guru's coming from need, why Sufi's are not interested in becoming Guru's and the mystical experience.
"In responsible Sufi circles, no one attempts to handle either the sneerers or the worshippers, and they are very politely detached from the others. They are not fertile ground? They have something else to do first. And what they need is offered abundantly elsewhere."
"Hall: Many of the great Sufi teachers seem to regard the ecstatic experience as only a way station.
People get stuck at the way stations due to attachment in my experience
Shah: Oh, yes. The ecstatic experience is absolutely the lowest from of advanced knowledge. Western biographers of the saints have made it very difficult for us by assuming that Joan of Arc and Theresa of Avila, who have had such experiences, have reached God. I am sure that this is only a misunderstanding based on faulty stories and faulty retrieval of information.
(It sounds like he has not had such a religious experience)
Hall: Sufis also seem to take extra-sensory perception as a matter of course and as not very interesting.
Shah: Not interesting at all. It is no more than a by-product. Let me give you a banal analogy. If I were training to be a runner and went out every day to run, I would get faster and faster and be able to run farther and farther with less fatigue. Now, I also find that I have a better complexion, my blood supply is better, and my digestion has improved. These things don't interest me; they are only by-products of my running. I have another objective. When people I am associated with become overwhelmed by ESP phenomena, I always insist that they stop it, because their objective is elsewhere.
I agree with him there, although I view ESP as a very different kettle of fish to the oneness with GOD
Hall: They are supposed to be developing their potential; not attempting to read minds or move objects around.
I think we would all agree with that
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/sufi/sufi-shah.html
being love
Kim xx
RE: Heavenly dance
ORIGINAL: Sacredstar
Hall: Sufis also seem to take extra-sensory perception as a matter of course and as not very interesting.
Shah: Not interesting at all. It is no more than a by-product. Let me give you a banal analogy. If I were training to be a runner and went out every day to run, I would get faster and faster and be able to run farther and farther with less fatigue. Now, I also find that I have a better complexion, my blood supply is better, and my digestion has improved. These things don't interest me; they are only by-products of my running. I have another objective. When people I am associated with become overwhelmed by ESP phenomena, I always insist that they stop it, because their objective is elsewhere.
He means everything from channelling to mediumship, which is surely enough to make one stop and think. These are 'psychic' or 'ESP' phenomena in his opinion, and not a part of the Path to God. Read more Shah and you'll see I am not taking him out of context - this is what he is saying.
RE: Heavenly dance
ORIGINAL: Sacredstar
I learned that Sufism was often attacked by Islamic fundamentalists right from the earliest times. Hence a lot of their poetic vocabulary is symbolic: 'the beloved' refers to God not to an earthly romantic attachment.
Yes it is written that they are Gnostics just like the early Christian Gnostics that were also called heretics. Yes, the lover and the beloved and the sacred union with the divine. However, it is also easy to forget that GOD loves through man hence why the sacred physical temple is so important.
You don't seem willing to 'get' it and never have. The living Sufis in all the nations covered in that programme say that the wording is totally symbolic. What people then do in their physical lives is up to them, and I don't at all suggest that Sufis are all ascetics. Most marry, etc. But the vocabulary of Rumi is stated by the Sufis themselves, and even by Rumi, to becompletely symbolic.
Sufis don't particularly feel that the body is "so important" - that's just your personal 'take' on thread after thread.
RE: Heavenly dance
As Shah says it is a by product David a way station. For instance I was taken through the stages of mediumship on my way home to GOD and when GOD showed me it was time to move on from this professional mediumship I did so. In the last year I was told that it is time to move onwards and upwards from the Ascended Masters and just be in total oneness with GOD.
I am fortunate to be able to detach from different phases of development and evolvement when it is GOD's will for me to do so. Are you?
On Ritual
Sufism is not, as often stated by westerners, a sect of Islam. It is, rather, a dimension found in and compatible with all manifestations of Islam, whether Sunni or Shiite, no matter what the Muslims are, intelligentsia or peasant, urban or rural. . . .
In summary, faithful Muslims who are not Sufis obey God and believe that God is merciful and will reward them according to their righteous deeds. The goal is to enjoy life in this world and prepare for the world to come. They diligently perform the five pillars and this aids them in "remembering Allah." However, their self-renunciation and abstinence do not go beyond their expected duties and obligations.
Sufis, on the other hand, passionately yearn for God. Their remembrance is total, a struggle (jihad) to be united with Divine Love. The Sufi's goal is not to perform certain rituals and hope thereby to become closer to God; the goal is to be united to God without any mediation whatsoever.
A Sufi does not neglect action but sees action as a completion. There is a sense in which Sufis see themselves as "fulfilled Muslims."
Ira G. Zepp Jr., A Muslim Primer, University of Arkansas Press, 2000, p. 115-20
Love beyond measure
Kim xx