RE: Is Jesus God
Ah well, thanks for answering. [sm=hug.gif]
Gx
RE: Is Jesus God
Thank you all for your replies.
It appears from the general consensus that God and Jesus are indeed the same thing. I feel better now that when I am inclined to leave Jesus out of my prayers I am not doing the wrong thing.
I still don't understand why Jesus had to die in such a horrible way. Why couldn't he just have carried on spreading the word of God and doing miracles to prove who he was.
RE: Is Jesus God
Hallo Orangeblossom,
That is a question I have asked myself many times. And one which is asked the world over, and is rich in answers and possibilities.
I personally think you have to choose what resonates best with you. If you prefer to think He died for our sins, that is wonderful, and if you feel that perhaps He did not die after all, but lived on and had a family, that is just as acceptable.
My own personal opinion is that it is part of the human culture from the beginning of humanity, which gave sacrifices to appease the gods. Jesus is often described as having sacrificed Himself for us, and my belief is it goes back to this. In the Old Testament we have Abraham, prepared to sacrifice his son for God, until he is stopped. So the Bible itself is full of this. It would seem to me to follow a particular theme.
The question is this. Are we prepared to accept anything as the Truth unless it is wrapped up in the symbolism of sacrifice? Do we need to see a sacrifice being made in order to acknowledge that God has done something powerful for us? Or, that God even exists?
Many people dislike this 'sacrificial' need in humanity, and prefer to think of Christ as a potent symbol. Others see Jesus as purely Spirit, in other words, the events never actually occured, although we are supposed to understand what the story represents.
All the learned theories and less learned but more instinctive ideas are all absolutely right, as to me, they are all partly true, and point to the whole Truth.
It's often been said on HP that no one really knows or understands everything, but everyone's wisdom is valid. All thoughts lead eventually to the same conclusion, but perhaps not while we on actually on this earth? Who Knows.;)
Apologies if this rambles;)
Love
Gillyxxx
RE: Is Jesus God
Dear Orangeblossom,
On Jesus and God being the same thing, I don't think that is what we have been saying on this thread in response, actually. It CAN be taken to be along the lines of the traditional Christian response, but methinks this is not a forum where you'll find many totally traditional Christians. So, for me, God is one name for the one almighty Spirit which different cultures have all kinds of names for; Jesus to me was a man who was extremely evolved spiritually, but IMO over more than one lifetime (to bring in reincarnation, which Jesus does more than hint at even in the New Testament) we can all evolve spiritually with no limits on how close and at-one with God we might become.
There's more on this here:
http://www.healthypages.net/forum/tm.asp?m=48015
Hugo: Yes re the differences between John and the other three gospels. IMO they were not disagreeing, but dealing with entirely different agendas. Matthew, Mark and Luke were basically concerned about the incarnate man, Jesus, and his life. John is looking to something altogether different: Christ as the "Word", or an aspect of God, which is one of the Trinity, and an energy, and akin to Krishna in Hinduism. So it seems that John was writing of Jesus as an incarnate example of something else - of this "Word" or Christ which transended the man and is ever-present.
Christian doctrine as it developed over the following 400 years focussed upon the "John" aspect of Jesus as the Christ and the "Word"; Jesus the man and the 'Jesus story' was completely lost and is not a part of the creeds except to affirm that he died and resurrected.
A pity that people over the centuries could not accept both together. In a very high and mystical way I agree with John - but he's not really dealing with Jesus the man. With the overbearing weight of doctrine and dogma from Christendom, and the punishment of heresies, the man-Jesus of the other gospels is rather lost, for we are intended to believe that he was literally God incarnate, and could never have made a mistake, had no 'human' feelings etc. So the whole Jesus story becomes robotic as though it could never have been diverted, since God was at the helm. Yet if, in view of the other gospels, we also view Jesus as man, or godly man, he really did have to put great EFFORT into his mission, and could have stumbled or failed at any point had he been less of a wonderful example of godly man.
So maybe Mel in his movie was making a necessary point after all.
(I just read an interview with him in the March 'Reader's Digest' and found it pretty awful how he chose words so carefully about the Holocaust which his father doesn't believe in. While quickly admitting that it happened, Mel downplays it as just one part of what war is about, and after all, he says, millions of people starved to death in the Ukraine in 1932-3. What has THAT to do with the Holocaust? So Mel is not looking too PC right now.)
Love,
Venetian
RE: Is Jesus God
Hello Orangeblossom! How nice to hear from you. As you can see, so many interpretations, so many beliefs! Obviously all our own opinions and results of searching over the years. You ask "why did Jesus have to die in such a horrible way?" I have been asking myself that question for years. In the New Testament Jesus says (please don't ask me to quote where!) that the things that happened to him had to happen to fullfill the prophesy. Things had to happen in a certain way in order for the people to recognize he was fullfilling what had been foretold. Why the horrible death? Well, I've thought that basically he couldn't die of disease, could he? Since he was able to master the physical and cure and bring back to life so many people. I feel one reason he needed to die (besides that he had assumed an earthly body and earthly bodies have a shelf life. Although that could lead to a whole other discussion! ;)) was to bring freedom from the fear of death. To demonstrate that he was going home, as we all will. To show that although he had mastered the physical earth plane he accepted death as a natural progression and did so knowing he was going back to the Father. However, the horrible death was the way political enemies of the authorities were put to death at that time. So, he was operating in the parameters of the times. He also showed us he could accept earthly suffering and did so with grace and patience with the faith that it would not last. That's my opinion for what it's worth. Look forward to hearing more from you. Much love, beej