Saturated fat from the batter?
You mean the egg? Highly unlikely to show up as white residue in that manner, i.e. being whisked into milk and flour beforehand.
You mean the egg? Highly unlikely to show up as white residue in that manner, i.e. being whisked into milk and flour beforehand.
No. I was thinking about the saturated cooking fat. I expressed it badly and wrote it before I'd seen the other comments to that effect. My bad. Sorry.
Where am I supporting the low-fat hypothesis?
Do I think our government would be ploughing money in? Yes. Why not? It has NEVER been investigated sufficiently. You have said various things on HP that are anti taking Statins (with which I agree) and yet the NHS advises taking them - another area where the in depth studies have not been done. This is so with a great deal of medical advice.
You say my comments are obviously nonsense. Please explain why this is so.
"...some good will come from following their advice plans." Not if the advice is opposite to what the evidence does actually say. In that case a great deal of harm will come from it.
Oh I thought your post on low fat was supporting the findings. I needed reminding (since it wasn't mentioned in that post) that your stance is anti carbs as causing obesity, yes? Well of course carbs are a contributory factor but the cause of obesity is generally overeating! Would you disagree with that? The point is that overeating usually comprises not just carbs but also fats and proteins etc so it would be had to extrapolate just carbs and say obesity is due just to this factor - unless you can prove me wrong.
You said (in a previous post) that the NHS advice on obesity is worthless. It was a dismissive and sweeping statement. I replied that this was a nonsense since, however misguided it may be, there are redeeming factors in its diet plans, i.e. cutting back on food is obviously beneficial.
Oh I thought your post on low fat was supporting the findings. I needed reminding (since it wasn't mentioned in that post) that your stance is anti carbs as causing obesity, yes? Well of course carbs are a contributory factor but the cause of obesity is generally overeating! Would you disagree with that? The point is that overeating usually comprises not just carbs but also fats and proteins etc so it would be had to extrapolate just carbs and say obesity is due just to this factor - unless you can prove me wrong.
You said (in a previous post) that the NHS advice on obesity is worthless. I replied that this was a nonsense since, however misguided it may be, there are redeeming factors in its guide, i.e. cutting back on food is obviously beneficial.
I'm still confused after reading my previous post as to how the confusion arose - I really want to know. I try to write as clearly as possible and I obviously failed here!
I'm not putting this anecdote forward as a study - it's clearly not - but as an illustration of how 'overeating' cannot be blamed for obesity. Sam Feltham, a personal trainer with a lot of experience, decided to experiment on himself. He decided he would eat 5794 calories a day and document weight gain. For the first 21 days he ate 10% carbohydrate, 53% fat and 37% protein. He gained 2.8 lbs and lost over an inch from his waist - the weight he gained was lean mass. For the next 21 days he ate 5793 calories of 64% carbs, 22% fat and 14% protein. He gained 15.6 lbs and his waist measurement increased by 3.6 inches. Many studies have failed to find any association between overeating and weight gain. ( Levine, Eberhardt & Jensen, 1999; Diaz, 1992 and many others)
You can lose weight in the short term by eating less and you can put weight on in the short term by eating more. But it does not work long term. Weight - like all other bodily systems - operates through homeostasis. That is, the body itself keeps the weight within certain limits. Long term, the body attempts to find its way back to what it considers its optimum weight and it will do this largely by increasing or decreasing metabolism or, in extreme cases by diverting resources away from non-vital areas (hair, nails etc.)
Any explanation of weight loss / gain has to fit with study results and with observation. I made a point earlier about what was considered 'normal' calories in the 1940s - so what has changed? We are eating less, we are weighing more. Native peoples all over the world get fatter as they change to a 'western diet' - generally as they increase activity and decrease calories.
The big question is - what causes the body to set the optimum weight too high? The emerging answer seems to be insulin resistance.
I'm still confused after reading my previous post as to how the confusion arose - I really want to know. I try to write as clearly as possible and I obviously failed here!
I'm not putting this anecdote forward as a study - it's clearly not - but as an illustration of how 'overeating' cannot be blamed for obesity. Sam Feltham, a personal trainer with a lot of experience, decided to experiment on himself. He decided he would eat 5794 calories a day and document weight gain. For the first 21 days he ate 10% carbohydrate, 53% fat and 37% protein. He gained 2.8 lbs and lost over an inch from his waist - the weight he gained was lean mass. For the next 21 days he ate 5793 calories of 64% carbs, 22% fat and 14% protein. He gained 15.6 lbs and his waist measurement increased by 3.6 inches. Many studies have failed to find any association between overeating and weight gain. ( Levine, Eberhardt & Jensen, 1999; Diaz, 1992 and many others)
You can lose weight in the short term by eating less and you can put weight on in the short term by eating more. But it does not work long term. Weight - like all other bodily systems - operates through homeostasis. That is, the body itself keeps the weight within certain limits. Long term, the body attempts to find its way back to what it considers its optimum weight and it will do this largely by increasing or decreasing metabolism or, in extreme cases by diverting resources away from non-vital areas (hair, nails etc.)
Any explanation of weight loss / gain has to fit with study results and with observation. I made a point earlier about what was considered 'normal' calories in the 1940s - so what has changed? We are eating less, we are weighing more. Native peoples all over the world get fatter as they change to a 'western diet' - generally as they increase activity and decrease calories.
The big question is - what causes the body to set the optimum weight too high? The emerging answer seems to be insulin resistance.
Yes you are right - you did mention your anti carb stance in the first paragraph of that previous post. I overlooked it in trying to make sense of the body of that post, i.e. disputing low fat findings.
Although you cite that the anecdote you mentioned is not a study, nevertheless you concluded from that one example that overeating cannot be due to obesity. To draw a proper/more valid conclusion from it, there would need to have been a control alongside it, i.e would his waist STILL have increased after 21 days had he stayed on the original plan anyway? Presumably the increase was gradual.....
I dispute what you say regarding overeating only puts on weight in the short term. I overeat and have done for as long as I can remember....my weight has not stabilised but increased. I would have thought that was a no brainer! (I am trying to do something about it now since I don't want to go on a higher dosage of blood pressure medication).
Insulin resistance may be a key factor in weight gain for some people but I doubt that it provides the complete explanation as to why everyone becomes obese.
Yes you are right - you did mention your anti carb stance in the first paragraph of that previous post. I overlooked it in trying to make sense of the body of that post, i.e. disputing low fat findings.
Although you cite that the anecdote you mentioned is not a study, nevertheless you concluded from that one example that overeating cannot be due to obesity. To draw a proper/more valid conclusion from it, there would need to have been a control alongside it, i.e would his waist STILL have increased after 21 days had he stayed on the original plan anyway? Presumably the increase was gradual.....
I dispute what you say regarding overeating only puts on weight in the short term. I overeat and have done for as long as I can remember....my weight has not stabilised but increased. I would have thought that was a no brainer! (I am trying to do something about it now since I don't want to go on a higher dosage of blood pressure medication).
Insulin resistance may be a key factor in weight gain for some people but I doubt that it provides the complete explanation as to why everyone becomes obese.
I did not conclude from the anecdote "that overeating cannot be due to obesity" - or even that obesity cannot be due to overeating. I was pointing out that any hypothesis that says "that overeating is due to obesity" has to be able to explain situations like that one.
You dispute my stance, which is backed by much research, by quoting your own situation. This is also an anecdote and, I dare guess, you have been less 'scientific' (i.e. taking careful notes and measurements) than Sam Feltham. You say you have overeaten - What have you overeaten? The 'what', not the 'how much' is the important question here.
Your doubts, your comments like '...no brainer!' avoid the engaging in discussion. By all means, amass your evidence that I am wrong and present it. Explain the weight gain with the commencement of a 'Western diet'. Explain all the studies that have concluded that there is no correlation between calorie intake and weight gain / loss.
If you do not think that insulin resistance has any bearing, please refer me to the studies.
As an aside - are you aware that blood pressure medication does not increase your life- chances?
I did not conclude from the anecdote "that overeating cannot be due to obesity" - or even that obesity cannot be due to overeating. I was pointing out that any hypothesis that says "that overeating is due to obesity" has to be able to explain situations like that one.
You dispute my stance, which is backed by much research, by quoting your own situation. This is also an anecdote and, I dare guess, you have been less 'scientific' (i.e. taking careful notes and measurements) than Sam Feltham. You say you have overeaten - What have you overeaten? The 'what', not the 'how much' is the important question here.
Your doubts, your comments like '...no brainer!' avoid the engaging in discussion. By all means, amass your evidence that I am wrong and present it. Explain the weight gain with the commencement of a 'Western diet'. Explain all the studies that have concluded that there is no correlation between calorie intake and weight gain / loss.
If you do not think that insulin resistance has any bearing, please refer me to the studies.
As an aside - are you aware that blood pressure medication does not increase your life- chances?
I did not say (at all) that insulin resistance has no bearing. I suggest you reread my previous post.
I take blood pressure medication to monitor the levels of having high blood pressure - nothing to do with longevity! I wouldn't take it at all if I could possibly avoid it and yes, I have done extensive research into this - foods like beetroot juice are not standardised in the dosage they offer.
I did not say (at all) that insulin resistance has no bearing. I suggest you reread my previous post..
Fair enough - although I could say " I suggest you reread my previous post." to you, fairly often. You actually said,
Insulin resistance may be a key factor in weight gain for some people but I doubt that it provides the complete explanation as to why everyone becomes obese.
so I will rephrase my question - Where is your evidence that it does not?
I take blood pressure medication to monitor the levels of having high blood pressure - nothing to do with longevity! I wouldn't take it at all if I could possibly avoid it and yes, I have done extensive research into this - foods like beetroot juice are not standardised in the dosage they offer.
I wonder what all of this means! Where does beetroot juice come into it? And the research you have done - could you reference the studies for me, please?
You say your medication is 'to monitor the levels of having high blood pressure' - can you explain what you mean, please?
Fair enough - although I could say " I suggest you reread my previous post." to you, fairly often. You actually said,
so I will rephrase my question - Where is your evidence that it does not?
I wonder what all of this means! Where does beetroot juice come into it? And the research you have done - could you reference the studies for me, please?You say your medication is 'to monitor the levels of having high blood pressure' - can you explain what you mean, please?
Since you are the one to cite insulin resistance as the cause of obesity (presumably by this you mean the main/ONLY cause of it), I think the onus is on yourself to prove this! It is, of course, linked to obesity and (particularly) diabetes but not everyone who is overweight/obese has this condition do they? I have not heard that this is the case.
I take medication to stablise my blood pressure. Perhaps you are reading too much into my precise words or perhaps I should not have used the word monitor. Beetroot juice is known to help lower blood pressure. It is well known that foods vary in their nutrients and therefore, unless standardised, cannot be relied upon to take as an alternative with something as serious as high blood pressure.
Since you are the one to cite insulin resistance as the cause of obesity (presumably by this you mean the main/ONLY cause of it), I think the onus is on yourself to prove this! It is, of course, linked to obesity and (particularly) diabetes but not everyone who is overweight/obese has this condition do they? I have not heard that this is the case.
I'd certainly suggest it is a major contributing factor. What I actually said was: "The big question is - what causes the body to set the optimum weight too high? The emerging answer seems to be insulin resistance." (But I'm not very interested if this is not a discussion and my questions don't get answered.) The accepted wisdom is obesity is caused by overeating, under exercising etc. Low fat diets are a help in cutting calories which are all important. I have quoted studies and brought up 'paradoxes' that throw doubt on this. So where is the evidence from studies that 'prove' this accepted wisdom?
However, try Popkin and Duffey, 2010 - "Does hunger and satiety drive eating anymore?", Or Duffey and Popkin, 2015 - "Energy density, portion size and eating occasions: contributions to increased energy intake in the United States, 1977 - 2006"
Yes, it is linked to obesity and diabetes 2 (not to diabetes 1). But it's increasingly looking as if everyone who is overweight, and many people who are not, have insulin resistance. This is hugely important, since it means that the usually dietary advice for diabetes 2 (and for fatty liver) is making things worse - in fact, killing people. You can see from the dates of the studies above that this is fairly new. But the opposition to a low fat diet and to the calories in /out hypothesis is not new at all.
You ask me to 'prove' it. Do you understand the differences between 'hypothesis', 'theory' and 'proof' in science? (I'm not being patronising. Genuine question. Many people, intelligent and otherwise well informed, don't.) Because the 'generally accepted wisdom is at the level of hypothesis. The effects of insulin (now leading onto investigating insulin resistance) are theories.
Thanks for that. I do think that the general media is down on organic produce. I work with a colleague who also owns a farm and he said that dairy produce that is organic has to have a six week break if the animal is given a course of anti-biotics. It makes sense to me to go for organic as much as possible. I drink goat's milk and goat's yoghurt as it's generally easier on the digestion. The only problem with that is that there is no source of organic goat's produce in the UK and my personal bugbear, that part of the herd is fed with GMO. When I'm in the right frame of mind I'm going to contact the farm with the information I posted about the impact of GMO on human DNA.
Ray
Are you looking for meat, milk or cheese? For dairy, try Organic Food and Café - https://organicfoodsandcafe.com/?s=goat&post_type=product
Or Hollyparks organics: http://www.red23.co.uk/Raw-Unpasteurised-Organic-Biodynamic-Goats-Milk-1-Pint_p_393.html
For meat, have you looked at Bere Marsh Farm : http://www.beremarshfarm.co.uk/index.php?st=spc
I hope one of these is suitable.
I accept that the link between obesity and overeating is complex and that there is more to it than this.
https://authoritynutrition.com/12-graphs-that-show-why-people-get-fat/
You are aware, I hope that graphs don't prove anything. They can show correlation. They cannot show causation.
Have you noticed that most of the graphs take calories consumption as the driving force of obesity - it is not being questioned? Still, all except the last one give credence to what I have said and the last one doesn't disprove it. (The figures within the article are interesting, however - the reduction in total fats and particularly saturated fats and the increase in carbohydrates.)
I have to wonder why you don't think my questions are worth answering.
You are aware, I hope that graphs don't prove anything. They can show correlation. They cannot show causation.
Have you noticed that most of the graphs take calories consumption as the driving force of obesity - it is not being questioned? Still, all except the last one give credence to what I have said and the last one doesn't disprove it. (The figures within the article are interesting, however - the reduction in total fats and particularly saturated fats and the increase in carbohydrates.)
I have to wonder why you don't think my questions are worth answering.
I have been trying to answer the questions Crowan. To be frank, I am not that interested in this subject to be questioned intensively on it and cannot focus that well due to my circumstances (which you know about).
I have been trying to answer the questions Crowan. To be frank, I am not that interested in this subject to be questioned intensively on it and cannot focus that well due to my circumstances (which you know about).
Okay. Sure. You were disagreeing with the studies without offering anything of equality, so I was responding. I'm happy to leave it there if you want to.