Antibiotics and probiotics

Makes perfect sense...Surprised it has taken them so long to arrive at that conclusion.

Its been known for some time....years actually. This is the formal study as far as I am aware. Shares in Yakult anyone? 😮

The Cochrane Collaboration reviews a selection of studies on a particular subject. In this case they " looked at data from 23 trials involving 4,213 patients who were on antibiotic treatment for a variety of reasons" to see if "taking probiotics [patients] had fewer unwanted side-effects than those on placebos, including stomach cramps, nausea and taste disturbances." which it did. They were particularly looking at avoiding C. difficile infections.

Studies in the early 1990s showed the same - so what's changed? Most doctors are still ignorant of it or if they do know fail to advise their patients to take probiotics - that is, effective ones that have been trialled. Yakult, Actimel, probiotic yoghurt, etc, are OK for maintenance but not really adequate for restoring damaged gut flora during and following antibiotic treatments, but a lot better than nothing.

I liken antibiotics to spraying off a beautiful garden with Roundup and expecting it to recover as it was - it doesn't! It needs careful nurturing back to health - diet-wise and probiotic-wise.

Thank you for posting Tashanie, to remind us.

The Cochrane Collaboration reviews a selection of studies on a particular subject. In this case they " looked at data from 23 trials involving 4,213 patients who were on antibiotic treatment for a variety of reasons" to see if "taking probiotics [patients] had fewer unwanted side-effects than those on placebos, including stomach cramps, nausea and taste disturbances." which it did. They were particularly looking at avoiding C. difficile infections.

Studies in the early 1990s showed the same - so what's changed? Most doctors are still ignorant of it or if they do know fail to advise their patients to take probiotics - that is, effective ones that have been trialled. Yakult, Actimel, probiotic yoghurt, etc, are OK for maintenance but not really adequate for restoring damaged gut flora during and following antibiotic treatments, but a lot better than nothing.

I liken antibiotics to spraying off a beautiful garden with Roundup and expecting it to recover as it was - it doesn't! It needs careful nurturing back to health - diet-wise and probiotic-wise.

Thank you for posting Tashanie, to remind us.

Well some doctors DO know because it was a doctor who mentioned it to me about 10 years ago. I hadn't seen anything about it!

Maybe slightly off topic but I wonder what others think/have found about NATURAL antibiotics. I have heard that garlic is a natural antibiotic. Has anyone used this instead of taking an antibiotic prescription? I'd be interested to know how effective (or not) it can be in treating what illnesses. Am guessing it might involve taking a garlic oil supplement (for a stronger dose).

Maybe slightly off topic but I wonder what others think/have found about NATURAL antibiotics. I have heard that garlic is a natural antibiotic. Has anyone used this instead of taking an antibiotic prescription? I'd be interested to know how effective (or not) it can be in treating what illnesses. Am guessing it might involve taking a garlic oil supplement (for a stronger dose).

Isn't penicillin 'natural' ? It was extracted (as so many herbal remedies are) from a natural product ....... 🙂

Isn't penicillin 'natural' ? It was extracted (as so many herbal remedies are) from a natural product ....... 🙂

Extracted = processed. I am allergic to penicillin.

Please don't tell me you support conventional antibiotics....there is such a long list of side effects and you surely know that we are developing an immunity to their effectiveness (largely due to them being over prescribed) that is raising worrying issues of superbugs!!!

Extracted = processed.

Not strictly true.

Essential oils are extracted from plants, but that doesn't mean they're 'processed' they've just been seperated out from other parts, though you could also label any 'action' as being a process.

Processed, however, typically means it's undergone some alteration from it's original form, so if the penicillin was extracted from the natural place it's found and then combined and chemically altered in some way, then yes we would typically say that it's been processed.

Otherwise we could label most things as being processed. i.e. eating a garlic clove is something that's been processed as it's been extracted from the whole plant and the skin removed.

🙂

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Not strictly true.

Essential oils are extracted from plants, but that doesn't mean they're 'processed' they've just been seperated out from other parts, though you could also label any 'action' as being a process.

Processed, however, typically means it's undergone some alteration from it's original form, so if the penicillin was extracted from the natural place it's found and then combined and chemically altered in some way, then yes we would typically say that it's been processed.

Otherwise we could label most things as being processed. i.e. eating a garlic clove is something that's been processed as it's been extracted from the whole plant and the skin removed.

🙂

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Well, I feel you are splitting hairs here/nit picking and haven't addressed the main points raised concerning using antibiotics in my post above.

If you read Michael T Murray, Phyllis Balch, Patrick Holford's books you will see they say garlic is an excellent for all sorts (if you can tolerate it).

[url]Murray's book[/url] lists it as an antimicrobial agent (rather than an antibiotic which is more a pharmaceutical term); for immune enhancement; for cancer prevention; for beneficial cardiovascular effects; and antiinflammatory effects.

As an antimicrobial it affects many genera of bacteria, viruses, worms and fungi and includes Staph. aureus, alpha- and beta- haemolytic Strep., E. coli, Salmonella, Klebsiella pneumoniae, and mycobacteria while not destroying beneficial gut bacteria. Quite a range! It makes for very interesting reading in my view. He lists the trials in which garlic and garlic extracts have been used to compare with antibiotics in common use.

Murray does have a proviso on the quality of the supplements available saying each manufactureer claims to have the best product. If it says 'at the time of manufacture' it may be an unstable product. A clove of fresh garlic should supply the right daily amount though!.

Extracted = processed. I am allergic to penicillin.

Please don't tell me you support conventional antibiotics....there is such a long list of side effects and you surely know that we are developing an immunity to their effectiveness (largely due to them being over prescribed) that is raising worrying issues of superbugs!!!

I am alive only because of penicillin. It saved me when it was a new wonder drug back in the 1950's. And any way...I am a pharmacist. I know how much good antibiotics can do,

That doesn't mean I don;t agree that there is a lot we could and should all do to to improve our own health as naturally as possible. That doesn't mean I am happy with how much antibiotics are used - in fact I am very concerned that we are running out of effective antibiotics because they have been over used . I am probably more aware of that most people on here.

But when they are really needed - they are life savers

I am alive only because of penicillin. It saved me when it was a new wonder drug back in the 1950's. And any way...I am a pharmacist. I know how much good antibiotics can do,

That doesn't mean I don;t agree that there is a lot we could and should all do to to improve our own health as naturally as possible. That doesn't mean I am happy with how much antibiotics are used - in fact I am very concerned that we are running out of effective antibiotics because they have been over used . I am probably more aware of that most people on here.

But when they are really needed - they are life savers

Yes...the key phrase being "when they are really needed". As mentioned, they tend to be over prescribed but - from what I have heard (on TV and radio) it's largely due to GPs being pressurised into giving patients what they require!!

So penicillin saved you.....it almost killed me! I am allergic to it now.

Thanks for your post above on garlic. I know of the beneficial effects - was just wondering if it could be used (safely) as a substitute for prescribed antibiotics, i.e. if the dosage would be sufficiently high enough. You mention Murray which I will check out; I guess I was hoping for established knowledge, i.e. from more than one source/study. Thought someone on this forum might know the answer to that.

Yes...the key phrase being "when they are really needed". As mentioned, they tend to be over prescribed but - from what I have heard (on TV and radio) it's largely due to GPs being pressurised into giving patients what they require!!

So penicillin saved you.....it almost killed me! I am allergic to it now.

Thanks for your post above on garlic. I know of the beneficial effects - was just wondering if it could be used (safely) as a substitute for prescribed antibiotics, i.e. if the dosage would be sufficiently high enough. You mention Murray which I will check out; I guess I was hoping for established knowledge, i.e. from more than one source/study. Thought someone on this forum might know the answer to that.

May I alert you to Higher Nature. They sell Olive Leaf Extract And Grapefruit Seed Extract, two natural 'antibiotics'. The latter they claim is their "all-time best seller".

They also do a good range of high potency probiotics.

Mountaineer....yes I know there are various food products out there having antibiotic properties.

My question was whether or not these could be safely used to replace taking a prescribed antibiotic, i.e. does their potency match that of the established drug? I guess my question is too technical but I kind of hoped someone here might well be practising such methods on clients. (I have no current need for this info - would just be useful to know).