More information about your treatment from Martin Knight
Hi,
I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with your surgery from Martin Knight.
What procedure did you have?
I'm going to see Martin Knight On Monday so I'm very interested to hear about the drawbacks of his treatment- many people seem to have a success story but these are the ones you tend to see posted on the discussion boards.
Did the pain ever reduce or do you still have it? What kind of pain? Were you warned before the operation that this was possible outcome?
i would advise to keep away from who you ask about, i am virtually crippled after surgery in 1996, if you do go and see him, think about it and take advise from someone else first before any procedure,
I will try to be as simple as I can, generally speaking.
Every surgery has risks, even when you are pulling your teeth with advanced oral surgeon.
Traditional spine surgery has overall long-term success from 50-70% and intraoperative complications rate up to 10%.
MISS (that respected Martin Knight is performing) has overall long-term success rate from 80-90%, and intraoperative complications happen in 1% of cases.
What I want to say? Me, you, your grandmother or your cousin can be in this 1% of Martin Knight's complications cases. Nobody can predict that and not everything is the surgeon's hands.
The fact it - YOU ALL HAVE BETTER CHANCES OF SUCCESS AND LIFE WITHOUT PROBLEMS IF YOU CHOOSE MINIMALLY-INVASIVE SPINE SURGERY. This is the fact proven in scientific studies and worldwide research in past 20 years.
The fact it - YOU ALL HAVE BETTER CHANCES OF SUCCESS AND LIFE WITHOUT PROBLEMS IF YOU CHOOSE MINIMALLY-INVASIVE SPINE SURGERY. This is the fact proven in scientific studies and worldwide research in past 20 years.
And your source is?
Thanks,
Myarka
Is it not the case that an assessment of statistics against one man performing one method of surgery in Bristol against what i have been told is the 2nd most common spinal procedure (open surgery) in the UK of very shallow use? albeit very interesting.
And your source is?
Thanks,
Myarka
If you write to MK he will send you a huge pile of independent documents and statistics bearing out that fact, and as a part of his consultation he goes through every possible treatment and operation and gives the facts and figures of the success rates and what can be expected. Funny cos your question was exactly what my nhs surgeon asked me, when I asked him for proof of his figures he couldn't provide any facts to back up his low rate of success or the 53% chance that I may end up in a wheel chair and he didn't really seem to care either.
It's all about research really and a persons choice.
are you saying that 53% of people who have open surgery for discectomies end up in a wheel chair?!:confused:
are you saying that 53% of people who have open surgery for discectomies end up in a wheel chair?!:confused:
Not exactly, those were the figures I was given for my situation and there will be several reasons why they decided on that rather high figure, age, extent of the disc protrusion/herniation, nearness to the spinal nerves etc etc.
Bad luck for me but meant I wasn't going to risk it whilst I can still walk a little, hence looking for other alternatives.Just ask your surgeon lots of questions, everyone is different and needs to be treated asuch.
But, then again we all know there is a risk in any operation.
Do you know i can not believe the amount of people i already know or have been aquainted with who have this problem. Just today i bumped into a former colleague who had been given a 50/50 on whether he would walk again post discectomy.
Prior to my operation i was given the usual stats of 10 % chance of minor complication and 90% success rate i did enquire with my surgeon and he did say that those were the stats for someone of my age (32 years male). However another friend of mine of same age having been given the same stats had a serious relapsed and a second discectomy (5 years gap).
I too believe that information should not just be accepted but honed using as much query and questioning as possible.
I so so hope you get the type of surgery you need.
Might be worth a plane ticket to america and an E1 11!
And your source is?
Thanks,
Myarka
Hiya Myarka.
I don't know which studies Keano was specifically referring to
when he stated (((YOU ALL HAVE BETTER CHANCES OF
SUCCESS AND LIFE WITHOUT PROBLEMS IF YOU CHOOSE MINIMALLY-INVASIVE SPINE SURGERY)) The fact it - This is
the fact proven in scientific studies and worldwide research in past
20 years.)) and I am not speaking for Keano or anyone else for
that matter, nor am I sourcing his words, but I 'genuinely hope'
that I can help you and other members with a better understanding
of Keanos basic 'and I believe' correct assertion.
The assertion is, that 'the less' a Spine Surgeon damages skin,
tissue, nerves, ligaments and cartilage during their approach to
the patients problem area 'the better'. This is particularly true of
muscle and vertebral damage, as damage here can cause
significant and lasting weaknesses and spinal imbalance, even
after the goals of an operation has been 'successfully' achieved.
As a general point, I feel sure that we all would agree, that
avoidance of this type of collateral damage and complications,
must be a good thing for patients!
To help with this understanding, I have posted (below) just a
small amount of the available information, which independently
confirms the shear volume of the 'consensus' of the medical
community, as to the 'necessity, validity and increasing
acceptance' of MISS procedures and principles by main
stream medical bodies around the world. In fact, the 'huge
increase' in MISS information has even staggered me!
There has been a 'massive explosion' of available concurring
medical information over the last 3 years!!
I must however offer a word of caution, not all stated MISS
procedures are actually MISS procedures at all. Minimal
clearly means, the least of, the smallest amount of or the
smallest proportion of, depending on the dictionary's you use,
so if a procedure can be improved by reducing the amount of
cutting and stripping involved in it, then it is not 'by definition'
minimal. This confusion is allowed because the MISS tag is
not protected by patent laws, so anything 'less invasive' than
traditional 'open back' spinal surgery can legally be called
MISS, and frequently is being described as MISS, even
when these procedures are often not strictly or
sometimes not even remotely minimal.
However, I strongly believe, that this 'does not mean'
that these procedures are worthless, if a procedure tries
to maintain a patients mobility without creating serious side
effects, it can still be considered very beneficial and
appropriate for the patient. I think that these procedures are
best described as Less Invasive Spine Surgery or 'LISS' or
'MAS' rather than MISS, thus avoiding confusing potential
patients. Her are some examples!
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.spinalsurgerynews.com/articles.php?key1=8& "> http://www.spinalsurgerynews.com/articles.php?key1=8&
key2=1
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/227718 "> http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/227718
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" https://www.ianjharding.com/Treatments.html "> https://www.ianjharding.com/Treatments.html
This link below shows just how far 'some organisations'
and 'Surgeons' are prepared to go, to associate themselves
with the minimally invasive 'MISS brand' and just how
careful the potential patients must be in selecting a treatment
route. In the video in the link below, the procedure is
advertised as Minimally Invasive Lumber Fusion, but as
you can clearly see from the images, the patient's back is
clearly open and kept open by the use of expanding
retractors, which stretch, pull and compress the surrounding
body parts, which in itself, could cause post operative
complications.
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="
">
feature=related
In order to be even handed, I have included 2 links to
sites that 'reasonably dispute' the superiority of MISS
over conventional open back procedures, these are
reasoned findings, but what is interesting to note, is that
even these reports fail to prove that MISS spine surgery
is significantly less effective than open back surgery nor
that MISS is in any way, more dangerous.
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3076584 "> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3076584
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.spine-health.com/treatment/back-surgery "> http://www.spine-health.com/treatment/back-surgery
/minimally-invasive-anterior- approach-spine-surgery
The variety of links below, not only show the increase of
MISS procedures and clinics, including units at some of the
worlds most renowned hospitals like Johns Hopkins and
New York Presbyterian, but also of the many and varied
legitimate procedural differences within the MISS family.
Some of these links are gleaned from medical and
academic sources, others from practicing clinics, others
from press releases and medical web sites and so on. As
such, these are not my words, nor those of Keano, but those
of respected and experienced Surgeons from around the world
and which can be found on peer and patient re-viewable
resources.
Their conclusions appear to be, that 'future investment and
training' in the MISS group of procedures, is a desirable and
an evolutionary course of action for every spinal unit or clinic,
be they NHS or private, because any procedure that reduces
'procedural damage' caused by 'working area access' will
offer the best possible and most consistent post operative
clinical outcomes for patients with chronic spinal nerve
compressions. I think this and the overwhelming evidence
below is why Keano reached his emphatic statement!
Sadly, you will see that very few of these dynamic MISS, MAS
and LISS centres are located in Britain, this is why the focus of
MISS treatment supporters threads on this forum are
concentrated and polarized on the 2 or 3 UK clinics that offer
this cutting edge treatment!
However, I believe that this 'increasing awareness' of the
medical community, about MISS principles, is on an
inexorable advance towards every day use of minimally
invasive principles and techniques which will take root in
Britain, but again sadly, probably not in my life time.
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21107934 "> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21107934
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.smiss.org/minimally-invasive-faq.php "> http://www.smiss.org/minimally-invasive-faq.php
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.ismissturkey.org "> http://www.ismissturkey.org
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://neurosurgery.stanford.edu/patient_care/neurospine.html "> http://neurosurgery.stanford.edu/patient_care/neurospine.html
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.aaos.org/news/aaosnow/sep09/clinical12.asp "> http://www.aaos.org/news/aaosnow/sep09/clinical12.asp
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.spinal-foundation.org/Clinical-Outcome-Research "> http://www.spinal-foundation.org/Clinical-Outcome-Research
/ELF-Clinical-Outcomes
[DLMURL="http://newsatjama.jama.com/category/journalologypeer-"] http://newsatjama.jama.com/category/journalologypeer- [/DLMURL]
reviewauthorship
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/neurology_neurosurgery/ "> http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/neurology_neurosurgery/
specialty_areas/spine/conditions/minimally_invasive_spine_
surgery.html
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://nyp.org/enews/minimally-invasive-back-surgery.html "> http://nyp.org/enews/minimally-invasive-back-surgery.html
[DLMURL="http://my.clevelandclinic.org/services/minimally_invasive_"] http://my.clevelandclinic.org/services/minimally_invasive_ [/DLMURL]
spine_surgery/sp_overview.aspx
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.jbjs.org.uk/media/31938/focuson_lumbar.pdf "> http://www.jbjs.org.uk/media/31938/focuson_lumbar.pdf
[DLMURL="http://www.spineuniverse.com/treatments/surgery/minimally"] http://www.spineuniverse.com/treatments/surgery/minimally [/DLMURL]
-invasive-spine-surgery-information
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1090489/I- "> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1090489/I-
surgery-spine--awake-time.html
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.bidmc.org/CentersandDepartments/ "> http://www.bidmc.org/CentersandDepartments/
Departments/SpineCenter/HotTopics/MinimallyInvasive
EndoscopicSurgery.aspx
[DLMURL="http://www.sages.org/publication/id/PI03"] http://www.sages.org/publication/id/PI03 [/DLMURL]
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.jbjs.org/article.aspx?Volume=88&page=226 "> http://www.jbjs.org/article.aspx?Volume=88&page=226
[DLMURL="http://www.cxvascular.com/sn-features/spinal-news---"] http://www.cxvascular.com/sn-features/spinal-news--- [/DLMURL]
features/is-minimally-invasive-spinal-surgery-the-future
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijso/2011/598148 "> http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijso/2011/598148
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.beckersorthopedicandspine.com/spine/item/ "> http://www.beckersorthopedicandspine.com/spine/item/
9710-endoscopic-spine-surgery-6-things-to-know-
about-the-present-and-future
[DLMURL="http://www.touchbriefings.com/pdf/2886/iprenburg1.pdf"] http://www.touchbriefings.com/pdf/2886/iprenburg1.pdf [/DLMURL]
[DLMURL="http://www.touchbriefings.com/pdf/3224/godschalx.pdf"] http://www.touchbriefings.com/pdf/3224/godschalx.pdf [/DLMURL]
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3076584 "> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3076584
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3095800 "> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3095800
[DLMURL="http://www.isass.org/pdf/sas11/3-Thursday/Plenary-"] http://www.isass.org/pdf/sas11/3-Thursday/Plenary- [/DLMURL]
Degenerative-Scoliosis-Where-to-End-the-Fusion/527.pdf
[DLMURL="http://www.wsc.ae/pagecontents.aspx?pageid=10"] http://www.wsc.ae/pagecontents.aspx?pageid=10 [/DLMURL]
[DLMURL="http://www.totalhealth.co.uk/clinical-experts/mr-khai-"] http://www.totalhealth.co.uk/clinical-experts/mr-khai- [/DLMURL]
lam/minimal-access-spinal-surgery
To discover just how far behind 'technological advances'
British diagnostics services are, take a look at these 2 links,
they show where we should be!
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.uprightmri.co.uk "> http://www.uprightmri.co.uk
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="
">
Over the last 4 years, like Cascara, I have received 5-6
clinical trial reports regarding the clinical outcomes of MISS
procedures, I have stored them away, but I am unable to get
at them at the moment. If I get better soon, I will find them
and post these links as well.
I hope I have gone some way to answering your question
Myarka,
Best wishes and kind regards
SPINELF
Error
I simply can not believe the amount of people i have met (not via the internet) now who have experienced this ailment, including friends i have known for years who would rather never mention their experience post surgery even to their close friends. Since i have under gone open back surgery for my L5/S1 i have virtually unlocked a subculture wherever and whenever i mention what i have been through.
The experiences always seem to be the same that the wait on the NHS is ridiculous and in the event of surgery whether private or on the NHS it is always open surgery. Spinelf and other posters are right that in the UK we do not get the cutting edge treatment that is available elsewhere in the world. This is as much a political issue as it is a health care issue.
Despite the ill timing (in view of current events) and the fact that i personally have undergone open back surgery (seemingly with successful results and minimal damage) I would be more than intrigued to see if any members of this group (particularly in view of the good research of some members) would be interested in lobbying central government about this issue.
I would love to know some thoughts on this from people who may have the time and inclination in particular from posters with a wealth of input and sources such as keanu and spinelf.
I work across various areas of law including employment and unfair dismissal as a result of prolonged absence from work and i am constantly bombarded with benign statistics about absences from work as a result of back pain or back ailments. My surgeon also has informed me that he believes that discectomies are probably the 2nd most frequent spinal procedure in the UK. Isn't it about time this condition was met with a quicker willingness to provide a proper MRI at the outset with the best and least damaging surgery available to get the hundreds of people back to work quickly?!
How excellent it could be try and take the input and research of members of this forum directly to central govt.....or maybe i'm suffering from a eutopian episode.
who says you have to be in oil to lobby government?
Good research SPINELF.
I didn't want to respond to Myarka because answers are so obvious and she already knew them...
If you are interested in benefits and the advantages of minimally-invasive spine surgery (from technical and scientific point of view) - do the research, this 5 links are more than enough.
http://www.ispub.com/journal/the-internet-journal-of-minimally-invasive-spinal-technology/
[url]American Journal of Neuroradiology[/url]
[url]An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie[/url]
[url]ScienceDirect - Home[/url]
[url]National Center for Biotechnology Information[/url]
Regards.
I work across various areas of law including employment and unfair dismissal as a result of prolonged absence from work and i am constantly bombarded with benign statistics about absences from work as a result of back pain or back ailments. My surgeon also has informed me that he believes that discectomies are probably the 2nd most frequent spinal procedure in the UK. Isn't it about time this condition was met with a quicker willingness to provide a proper MRI at the outset with the best and least damaging surgery available to get the hundreds of people back to work quickly?!
How excellent it could be try and take the input and research of members of this forum directly to central govt.....or maybe i'm suffering from a eutopian episode.
who says you have to be in oil to lobby government?
I have been looking at this very thing. It would be great to put all this knowledge to good 🙂
Me too Cassie, I have given this ‘lobbying matter’ a lot of thought over the years, and have come to the conclusion that ‘only’ a multi pronged approached will succeed.
Something along these lines:
1)
Get the support of a sympathetic MP, perhaps someone who has personally experienced spinal problems, or someone who has family members who are or have experienced these problems, and is prepared to really mix it up in parliament and to raise support amongst other MP’s ahead of an E-petition campaign!
2)
Get the support of a sympathetic and brave, newspaper or media ‘medical issues’ Editor, who could raise the awareness of all of UK’s spinal pain sufferers and their families by posting regular editorials, features and providing more comprehensive research than any of us can muster, and will be able to support the build up to the E-petition launch!
3)
Set up an E-petition with a ‘carefully and strongly worded demand’ for the release of information (that we know they don’t have) and for immediate improvements in NHS spinal diagnostics and treatment services, funding for 'out of area' treatment as of right, and even 'out of country' procurement and funding for the most cutting edge minimally invasive and spine surgeons if required, who can provide the best outcome results for their patients.
4)
Get support from a ‘pro bono’ or ‘no win, no fee’ legal team, to support challenges against any obstruction, non-compliance or down right fibbing as ‘the guilty get twitchy’ as the public get to see what exactly is going on in the world of UK spinal services.
I realise, that this may seem a bit ‘alarmist’ to many, but I truly believe, that when the power and finances of the corporate and medical ‘legal eagles’ and ‘PR people’ swing into action, to protect this ‘very lucrative’ health market, I believe that the ‘oncoming backlash’ will be a thing to marvel!
SPINELF
Me too Cassie, I have given this ‘lobbying matter’ a lot of thought over the years, and have come to the conclusion that ‘only’ a multi pronged approached will succeed.
Something along these lines:1)
Get the support of a sympathetic MP, perhaps someone who has personally experienced spinal problems, or someone who has family members who are or have experienced these problems, and is prepared to really mix it up in parliament and to raise support amongst other MP’s ahead of an E-petition campaign!2)
Get the support of a sympathetic and brave, newspaper or media ‘medical issues’ Editor, who could raise the awareness of all of UK’s spinal pain sufferers and their families by posting regular editorials, features and providing more comprehensive research than any of us can muster, and will be able to support the build up to the E-petition launch!3)
Set up an E-petition with a ‘carefully and strongly worded demand’ for the release of information (that we know they don’t have) and for immediate improvements in NHS spinal diagnostics and treatment services, funding for 'out of area' treatment as of right, and even 'out of country' procurement and funding for the most cutting edge minimally invasive and spine surgeons if required, who can provide the best outcome results for their patients.4)
Get support from a ‘pro bono’ or ‘no win, no fee’ legal team, to support challenges against any obstruction, non-compliance or down right fibbing as ‘the guilty get twitchy’ as the public get to see what exactly is going on in the world of UK spinal services.I realise, that this may seem a bit ‘alarmist’ to many, but I truly believe, that when the power and finances of the corporate and medical ‘legal eagles’ and ‘PR people’ swing into action, to protect this ‘very lucrative’ health market, I believe that the ‘oncoming backlash’ will be a thing to marvel!
SPINELF
Thank you for your tips!
Allan