Thank you
Hi microsuccess,
I would just like to thank you for all the advice you have posted. I have found the advice regarding ice a saviour! I am putting ice on regularly and it definitely is helping with the post op pain and swelling.
Thanks again
Month 9
So, I trundle on through life, a bit worse for wear after a 5hr flight yesterday.
This last 2 months have levelled off in many respects, I now sleep as pre-injury, I take zero medication and can do 80% of physical activities I could pre-Op (that 20% is contact sports which is my choice). I think the most important thing for expectation management with this injury is you can probably return to activities you did pre-injury but you MAY not reach the same levels of achievement - HOWEVER SEE BELOW.
Being middle aged I know this is all part of getting older anyway but for those who are either quite young or previously extremely active I would say take heart:
In the US a study of athletic persons was done on 60 patients with S5-L1 prolapses (including double and relapse cases). Average age of the patients at the time of surgery was 26.8 years (range, 19 to 47). All patients presented with low back and/or leg pain. Subjects had experienced an average of 5.2 months of pain (range, 1 week to 48 months) before initial presentation. 53 returned to active participation in their sport. The average time that elapsed between surgery and their return to the sport was 5.2 months (range, 1 to 15 months). The sample included 50% American College Football Players (thats not UK style football, its the rugby style)
Now the 5.2months to me makes sense however of these individuals a high % reported a return to daily life after only 7.5 weeks post discectomy. Im just curious how many people on here realistically hit that 8 week point, returned to work and never looked back???
Driving and sitting
Hi microsuccess
I have been reading your post for awhile. I had my md done on 1/12/13 after suffering for 5 months' pain on the l5/s1 (right)
I have some questions. As time goes by, were you able to sit and drive in a longer time?
I do not see many posts regarding sitting and driving.
I live in Los Angeles, ca, USA. Driving is the life style. How do you feel you back was able to endure a longer sitting time?
Now I sit 30 min and move around. I scare the sitting will hurt my back's healing.
Sorry English is not my first language. Thanks.
Hi Leugen
Sorry for the slow reply I've been away.
For me sitting has improved roughly every 2 weeks and improved through initially just timing how long I sat e.g. sit initially 30mins per day, then adding 2-5mins every day. I didn't start this kind of regime until week 4 i think. Driving was altogether different driving a manuel car (stick) really used to aggravate me and I couldn't build up the time in the car. I really had to build up my sitting at home, then when really confident start going out in the car (small journeys at a time). I will assume as a lot of US cars are automatic you will still have the sitting issue as the S1 nerve still won't want to be in the seated forward position, the only way of relaxing the nerve is by reclining the seat slightly. For manual drivers like I was, pressing the clutch in was a main issue as the action flared up the nerve The best way to get used to sitting is doing core stability exercises. When we are injured so long we dont want to sit so the muscles in the back, side and front get weak, Im not talking about the large Abs, i mean the fine muscles deep in the spinal areas. Really must re-build these to achieve the ability to sit for prolonged periods - AND YOU CAN DO THIS.
The sitting after 8-12 weeks shouldn't re-hurt your back, but as I always say you must consider they've done a similar scale operation to breaking a leg, so no running before you can walk...or in our case sitting to long before you have the right muscles built up to take the strain again.
I hope this helps in some way
Thank you plus some more questions
Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
I can now sit 30 min but my doc told me to walk around 5 mins and resume sitting in that 30 min interval.
Your suggestion is good, ie add some sitting minutes after the 30 min mark.
I am also doing some back strengthening exercise. I believe what you meant when the back muscle strength builds up, the body will be able to sit longer. Am I right?
For driving, I don't drive stick anymore. I read your previous posts and adjust the seat to 100 degree incline. That Is better. However, I still can't drive longer than 20 min. I need to drive 35 mi each to and from work. Need to practice to sit longer.
I have a question. The readers are gonna laugh. I know we need to sit in those chairs with good back support. When you go to the restaurant or pub, do you move freely to eat and drink? My friends said I act like a robot in the chair and guard so much to lean forward to the dining table to get food. I m so scare I move my body like NORMAL and will trigger any symptoms.
Just want to know if you move like normal but remind yourself with good posture and body mechanics?
I have not get back to work. This is my 7 or 8 week. I feel like to lie down after move around, eg washing dishes or some light desk work. I guess my body has not fully recovered yet.
I am using acupucture and Chinese herbal medicine to help me to recover. The surgery hits me hard. I m only 43 and am an active female. Do not know what to say.....
Thanks a lot.
Leungan 2
Theres never any stupid question regarding this injury - it seems regardless which side of the atlantic you are the Drs give limited thought to aftercare.
Body posture: Yes, keeping the muscles in the side, back and stomach strong = quicker return to normality. Don't think a man with large Abs means he will recover faster. Its the smaller muscles that improve the core greatly. AND possibly most important the glute muscles (bottom). Theres a variety of exercises out there which dont include the squat which can greatly improve your core muscles. The 30mins your currently achieving is great, just remember your still in the recovery phase so you wont leap from 30mins - 3hrs over night. It frustratingly takes a long time.
Sitting in pubs etc: NOT A STUPID QUESTION. your friends/family are the best guide for how you are recovering. The fact they are telling you your movements are robitic simply means your brain is still considering the surgery as a threat to its well being. The mechanical movements are 'guard' reactions which I had/have. If you let them, they WILL become automatic which isnt always good if you want to return to normaility. BUT at week 8 its absolutely fine to still have these reservations about moving/bending without fear of injury. One point for everyone: If you remain 'guarded' for months and months the muscles in the hamstring/back/calves etc all shortern and when you try to come out of this phase your muscles will be so tight that it will increase pain. So keep stretching daily. And when I say stretch I dont mean over stretch. Go to where is comfortable and hold for 1minute. Holding for under this time only recovers you to a point but what we as back suffers need is to elongate these muscles for the future when we return to cycling.jogging etc.
Personally I have average posture even now. I relax in comfy chairs as it takes the strain off the nerve. BUT please note this has meant my muscles shorterned considerably and have taken extra months to re-lengthen. I move however as i did pre-injury now. Literally sitting on a hard surface like a table for in excess of 40mins is my last hurdle.
Recovery: 8 weeks to recovery = Not long enough in my head. Its not surprising the dishes etc fatigue your muscles and tire you out. However re-focus on your core. Make it part of your life to endeavour to keep these muscles and your leg/buttock strong and you will see the difference.
Accupuncture: Everyones different but I did find this effective.
Keep thinking about the future. Dont focus on the 'now' with this injury. It is slow and is hard but hopefully in the months ahead you will see the difference in yourself. just leep in your head 1) They've cut through decades of muscle to fix you. IT WONT HEAL IN A FEW WEEKS. 2) You see yourself everyday and probably wont see the improvements until month 3-4 BUT your family after week 10 should notice improvements every other week. 3) Remain strong - You will recover
Leungan 3
Hi,
Thanks for your note.
1. Exercises: my doctor has given me a lot of exercises to do. Those are like what you are doing to strengthen my back and the thigh/butt. My calf muscle on the right is back but the right thigh still a kind of weak. I can't do hundreds of calf stretches like you. That is torturing!
I stretch the hamstring and the s1 nerve. The s1 nerve stretch is painful but I did sit more comfortably when I put on my shoes and tie the shoes laces. Thanks for your suggestions.
2. Postures. I try to remind myself to relax when I move around the home. I m happy my current guarding attitude is still normal.
Eating out: sometimes still feel uncomfortable to go out. Again, it is the sitting. I will put more effort on it.
I sat in a soft office chair yesterday and the right side of the butt felt sore. I immediately stood up and move to a hard kitchen chair. Phew! I now understand how a bad sitting tool hurts our body balancing.
3. Getting back to the community. I m driving 10-15 min everyday to do some shopping within the community. I hope that will build up my courage to drive a farther distance.
4. Just don't understand how ppl could go back to work 3 days of the surgery. Or some doc said like mine I could go back to work in a month. As you mentioned earlier, the body was very weak. I listen to my body rather than hop into the car and office and end up calling the ambulance.
Ok. I will reference your note and let your know how my recovery goes. Sometimes, I really think/worry too much as you said and make myself lose focus.
Pls keep in touch in this forum. Today is very nice in the sunshine state (California ).
Let me go get a cup of Lipton tea and start my stretching. Take care!
Long Needle Accupuncture
Ok, so I was introduced to someone the other day that spoke of 'Long Needle Accupuncture'. These are very long needles with a copper head that go DEEP into the tissue (1-3inches). This guy has 21yrs medical experience and truely believed these needles gave his patients the best recovery path.
Yesterday I found a practitioner and had my first session. The needles are LONG and have a brass coil at the end so the person giving you them can assess muscle response. She put only 2 into my left buttock and pushed them in approx 2 inches!!!! Now i was a bit concerned as her 'aim' was to touch the S1 nerve! I did panic a bit but trusted her. After 1min she touched it and f@%k it hurt, but then settled and she added the 2nd and again it hurt and then alleviated. Today I had my 2nd session. I don't know what to say but in 24hrs this woman has changed the feeling of my whole leg??? The a golf ball sized pain/annoyance in my butt is now the size of a marble and then today its more like a 2p piece. The pain has gone from an average 2/10 to about 0.5/10. The best part was after today she had me on a table (solid pine), usually I would have some aggrevation but I had zero???
Now i take all this kind of stuff with apprehension but she says the inflammation to this kind of injury is scientifically proven to be helped and suggested a cortisone injection would remove 100% of the remaining pain (i will see how i progress).
1) Has anyone tried this?
2) If so how did you respond?
Im really confused. I feel that 6 months ago if i'd had this i may have recovered even faster, and slightly more concerning is the thought if she can calm the nerve down so much in 24hrs what could she have done pre-surgery. Im both confused and a bit angry with myself today that i didn't know of this stuff pre-Op.
Long needle acupucture 1
Hi
I started to have the long needle acupucture 2 weeks post-op. At that time, I could not stand with my leg muscle. I just felt 2 sticks were supporting my torso.
My acupucturist put 1 long needle into each side of my butt and I felt my legs strength improved immediately. Yes that hurts. I am still having the treatment twice a week.
I believe acupucture can cure inflammation along with taking Chinese herbal medicine.
For cortisone injection, I have no idea.
I am Chinese so I believe in acupucture. I know that if a person starts to have slight symptoms of sciatica nerve pain, both acupucture and Chinese herbal med can cure the problem.
I know you will ask how come I ended up surgery but not using acupucture. I had my disc herniation due to sneezing. The time when I tried to use acupucture it was too late cuz the herniation was too big (7mm). Unless I were in china, then I would be able to get the acupucture treatment instead of surgery to get rid of the protruded disc.
The medicine I received from the surgery hit me big time. I can't believe you did not have any weakness at all. Do you take any vitamins or make a lot of good food to aid your recover?
Hope that helps.
Note: my note is from my own experience. Since I live in America, I need to remind the readers to obtain proper medical treatments through professionals!
1 week after surgery
Hi. glad I have found this page. I had a L5-S1 surgery on the 7th March.
I wasn't in too much discomfort before surgery. I had bad days really bad days and then I'd have days where I was fine. I had the operation and woke up feeling good. I stayed in hospital for 3 days (I was the only one of 3 that went home after 3 days the others stayed for 5). The hospital physios were really pleased with my progress and the nurses were amazed with how well I had got up and started pottering about. The doc was happy for me to go home with some physio exercisies and told me to do some gentle walking. I have done everything religiously. When I woke up from the op the pain had gone but I had some numbness down my leg and in my bottom. This decreased while in hospital and got better still after I left hospital. I have been mainly lying down a little sitting on a togu ball (not longer than 5 mins) walking and the exercises I was given by the PT. Today and yesterday however I have noticed some sensations in my leg again. I am terrified that I have reherniated the disc some how? The nusres did mention a bit of ghost pain and some sensations but I am still so scared that the surgery has failed.
Before the op I had managed to stay fit by swimming a lot. They think this is why I was up and doing well so quickly. Still strong. I wonder if this is also the reason I am feeling the sensations again. done too much too soon? Only done what they have told me. When I do walk, I walk well with no limps or shortness in stride. My back around the op site is a bit tired and my muscles in my back are a bit still too but other than that my walking is good. No loss of strength on ability in the leg.
Fingers crossed this is something other have experienced too.
LucyT
Hi,
Half the battle with this injury is in our heads as for those that have undergone surgery we know the surgery has occured but our brain was unconcious during the event so struggles to grasp the effect on the nervous system. You are right to get into a good routine from the early days but dont over do it if possible.
The excess sensations in your legs are an example of the nervous system assessing the effect of the surgery by continually sending signals up and down the nerve rootlets. This can be a shock post Op as we assume the pain thats removed shouldn't reoccur BUT it will do for quite a long period while the neurons filter out new vs old pain. I wish someone in the NHS would create a definative pamphlet that gives those undergoing the discectomy some clear advice and expectations but until then i think forums like this will suffice.
For the first 8 weeks 100% LISTEN to the pain. if their exercises are bringing on long bouts of pain then STOP. The muscle tiredness is to be expected as they've cut through 000yrs worth of muscle its taken a lifetime to build up. It will recover, give it time, and dont expect this muscle to recover over night. The Op site will go down and i found ice a good relief for after walks as it naturally reduces the inflammation. BUT DONT LEAVE IT ON. Remember the incision site needs blood supply to get the nutrients to the right place.
There will possibly be some bad weeks ahead when the pain can seriously get you down and if laying still for extended periods doesn't reduce this pain then seek advice but just remember what you've gone through. Its not a quick fix. Stay strong and any Qu's please just ask.
Thanks for the reply! AND the encouraging advice. It seems that as a rule hospitals let you go home with no advice as to what to expect next and what to do! Before I found this I was getting lost in the land of Google and boy there are some terrible tales on there all of which scare the sh*t out of you.
I have started icing when I get back from my walks and it does help. I follow this with one of those bean heat bags that gets the blood back into the area. I havn't done a walk yet that has caused pain that last a long time, I find that my back is a little tired and achy when I get back but this goes almost straight away when I have my lie down.
I forgot to mention in my last post that I am 37. I have also found that the more I lie about the more uncomfortable I am so I am continuing with the physio exercises. I am going to be seeing my physio next week and will be really interested to see how I have been doing. I have been writing a list of questions to ask them. I will keep the forum posted with my results.
Thanks again for the advice. Got it just in time before I went mad!
Wound healing question
Hey, thank you for sharing your story and progress. I had my micro on march 5, 2013. Overall things are going really well. I do have a question about the incision site. The top portion of mine doesn't seem to be healing very well and I have quite a bit of pain and tenderness still. The bottom portion looks completely normal no scabbing or anything but the top part there's a lot of scabbing There's no redness or swelling or any signs of infection. I see my family doctor soon will have a look at it as just wondering how long it takes for the wound to heal. How long did you keep it covered for?
A little about me I'm 43 years old from Canada was injured on the job,. had an l5/s1 herniation
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
Hi Dma927
Looks like we had ours at a similar time to each other. Hope yours is still going well? I changed my waterproof dressing 3 times before leaving it off and for the steri srips to come off. So all bandages off after 11 days. There were some parts of the op site that had healed completly and a couple of parts that still had a bit of a scab on and looked a bit red. These came off over the next few days and it's starting to look good now. get the Doc to look at it anyway. But I'd say that as long as it's not red or oozing smelly stuff it should be ok. Keep it clean and maybe bathe in salt water ( I always rely on good old salt water for the cuts and scrapes that the horses get, the vets always recomend it too).
Good luck. Keep up informed as you and I have had ours done at roughly the same time so it will be interesting too see how you are getting on.
Dma
Hi,
LucyT is right regarding the oozing being a sign of potential problems. However mine did weep from week 2-4 and i did worry this was infection but turned out its part of the natural healing process. I kept my wound completely dry for the first ten days, then cleaned it all off myself and put a breathable plaster over. Its important the incision site gets time to breathe. The drs/surgeon will have covered the area in steralizer and possibly iodine so chance of infection is low from the site and more probable if you keep touching it with your hands which are more likely to move around dirt etc.
At week 8 the site should be bright red/purple. Dont worry it slowly turns to blue from month 2-4 and then goes pink like a scar should by month 4-6.
One thing extra, you MAY get an increasing lump around the incision site. This is scar tissue which people worry is an infection building. Ask the your dr how best to break this scar tissue down as internally the more room your back has to heal = more room for the nerve to be free and allows more chance for it to heal.
I hope this helps