Relief at last
Day four and finally have some tangible relief which although I'm sure it would improve by day has I think been vastly improved by me starting to take some ibuprofen yesterday which the hospital didn't Reccomend. I'm going to start using an ice pack today and might feel more benefit from that. I'm spending most of my time lying down which is frustrating but necessary I know, I only stood grating vegetables the other day and felt the worse for it. I'm really grateful for the advice I've been given and as you can see it has made a differance.
Only day four and I think I can see a light at the end of what is very long tunnel x
Week 8
So I totally don't know where the times gone. Between stretches, walking and visits to the physio my lifes been passing me by. HOWEVER at present its all been worth it:
While at 3 weeks I considered the surgery a success I still have had niggles and the odd day that felt like 80% of the pre-surgery pain had returned. I've stuck to the exercises religiously along with ice after every session, I've stepped up the walking weekly and currently sit at 1 mile pain free (flat road) but have exceeded 5.5 miles three times in the last week. Yes it hurt but I'm resigned to staying positive, I know the nerve isn't caught and that its just healing and will continue to go with this thought.
So at 8 weeks I know a lot of people go back to work but as I'm self employed I have decided to have the luxury of 4 more weeks devoted to recovery. For anyone in the weeks 0-8 please stick with it mentally. Its definately worth it compared t pre-surgery if you've had the sciatica very bad or had it over a long period.
I've decided to put down where I am at but everyone will be different:
Laid still: 100% painfree
Stood still: 100% painfree
Walking flat 1 mile: 0-10% pain
Walk uphill: 10-30% pain
Swimming: Over 50 lengths is 0-10% pain
Sitting: 40mins - few mins walking or stretching - then 30min blocks
Lifting: 15-20kg when bending knees (5% pain)
Sleeping: 8hrs
Drugs: 1 ibuprofen on the evening
Ice: morning and tea time
One big thing I learnt from week 4. Get a bandage and from just above the ankle on your left leg (sciatica leg for me) wrap it tight so it covers 20cm up the leg. The physio explained the nerve endings around there are most sensitive. If they are compressed post surgery this should reduce the memory pain. Trust me it made a significant change to when I sat or stretched.
Happy healing
Week 10
What a slog - But worth it in my eyes.
Walking in the last week has shown dividends. I couldn't of done what I have in any of the previous weeks and have noted it feels every 14 days I notice a real difference in my recovery. Anyway I walked out a 5mile. rest day. 8mile. rest day. 12mile in the last week and noted that an incline regardless of gradient increases the pain. So the 8mile and 12mile walks I've done have been on the flat and I've had relatively no pain while walking. The incision area is sore but more like a weak bruise. I iced afterwards and after 40mins felt quite good. I'm down to taking drugs only if needed this week but after each slog 1 ibuprofen was enough.
Ok so the downside. The nights after these walks were painful. I slept but felt sore and woke often. BUT thats only on the nights after the walks.
To give you an idea of what I do every morning for building more core/hamstring/legs back up (and this has taken 6 weeks - I didn't/couldn't of done this pre-surgery):
Strength
Calf raises: 500 on each leg (leaning against a wall)
Squats: 350 on each leg (leaning against a wall)
Back flexions: 250 (lay on stomach and gently bring head and torso off the floor)
Stomach crunches: 250 (like mini situps)
Using a theraband (like a massive rubberband. found in physios)
Hamstring lift: 300 each leg (Lay on stomach. tie the band round both feet. Keep one straight and pull the other up until at 90 degrees ).
The bloody painful stretching the S1 nerve
Lay on your back. Bring your right leg up until the thigh is 90degree to your stomach. Bring left leg up and cross it so the outside of the ankle leans on the right legs thigh. Then very very slowly lift the right leg knee toward the stomach. Just imagine if you sat on a chair and like some men bring one leg up and rest the ankle over their other leg. Now imagine that when laid on the floor and you have the picture.
THIS MAY HURT A LOT!!! Please be warned I was only told to start doing this at week 6 and still it destroys me and I want to scream. But the day after I can situp more comfortably. Its something to do with how long I was immobile and the muscle wastage in my left buttock. Anyway it hurts.
My take away points up to week 10.
1) Rest when you can but set yourself a regime. I now have an hour in the morning and night dedicated to my stretches and strengthening and I see the benefit.
2) Strap the left leg with a tight bandage from the ankle to below knee if the dulle nerve pain is still going on post-surgery. It should quieten the nerve down and give you some relief.
3) DONT be disheartened. I've been bouncing around like a yoyo with bad day-good day-bad day-good day. That why I now only assess myself every 14 days as for example last friday I wanted to just give up, yet sat here now I think yeah, im doing well, I'm improving, and yes my calf muscles are huge:) a crap joke but a little victory.
4) Im so gonna find a half marathon for 4 weeks time and walk the hole thing and not care one bit.
Week 11
The physio this week has tweeked my programme and added in 3 long walks, prolonged sitting and asked I lay off the ice and laying on my stomach.
The walks were 7miles, 11miles and 14miles. For the 7miler the lower leg pain came on quite strong when I hit any incline and on saturday I thought maybe that long distances werent overly helpful. I didn't ice and had the worst nights sleep since before surgery! I was grumpy sunday but refrained from ice and laying on my stomach when not sitting and barely slept.
Mondays walk was just as aggravating but at 9miles I found I was walking nearly 90% painfree (2/10 pain). I didn't ice and instead opted for a bath as my legs were tight and aching (which I kinda liked). Terrible night sleep again with sciatica flaring up quite a lot throughout the night.
Yesterday I did the same route and at 9 miles yet again the pain dropped off and at mile 12 I was 0-1/10 on the pain scale. I didn't ice again after and went for a bath. Last night I hurt slightly but as soon as I stood up the pain was gone - weird.
So anyway today I just strolled out 4 miles 100% painfree (except at a steep hill) and what was the most motivating was I honestly believe I could of jogged or at worst waddled quickly. I didn't only because the way things are going I want to be 100% happy I'm painfree before I try anything stupid.
I don't really have any tips this week. The laying on me back instead of stomach has meant when I go to stand I now dont get the stiffness I was. As for the ice I'm in two minds. I see the benefit so will maybe next week go with my off days for ice but then bath after it. Drugs I used 1 tramadol on saturday night because the pain was so harsh it kinda shocked me and reminded what I had been going through the last 2yrs. Ibuprofen was once every other day and amitriptyline every night.
Definate improvement. Its my last week before back to work so Im hoping this weeks trend of improvement continues. Scratch my last comment on walking a half marathon, I've done that distance now. Marathon is a bit far but who knows in a few months:)
Week 12/13
...
Week 14
Sorry, I posted my 12/13 and then somehow deleted it:)
Ok so I'm 3 1/2 months since the surgery and the difference in the last 3 weeks has been huge. I am now off all medication completely and haven't even needed an ibuprofen for 2 and a bit weeks. The difference has mainly been down to I believe my routine of exercises, swimming, stretching and jogging.
The jogging is my major worry as I fear the hours on the road may re-injure me but for some reason I'm just getting further every time I go out. Weeks 12-13 were 4 miles every morning after my stretching and heart rate wise I was through the roof and tired. However the jogging in the last week has stepped up without me even realising and thursday I ran approx 400-500m and it was amazing. My jogging usually is fairly fast put since I started again its slow, and I mean like just over a fast walk. Pain wise only downhill effects me and I pretty much walk all downhills as the pain it brings on is in the ankle at about 2-3/10. Its not up there with the 'fear' pain I had in the early weeks (week 2-8) but it puts me off doing it for now.
Pain: To clarify if I haven't made myself fully clear before, I get the buttock tight/bruised sensation still when I walk but the more I walk above 8 miles it drops off (weird). I take no meds and after jogging, swmming etc I haven't used ice in week 12-13 BUT this week after a hectic day involving a lot of sitting I used ice for 1 hour. I think it just settles my nerves a bit. Laid flat I have zero pain, sleeping well where to start AMAZING, I get so annoyed at times I didn't have surgery sooner after the pain pre-op BUT I'm glad I exhausted all other options before the Op as I have no 'what if I had held off' feelings.
Sitting: My major niggle. I work from home so can stand up when ever I wish. I found in week 4-10 sitting slouched brought on minimal pain but I know that posture isn't good so after 10-15mins would stand up. At present I max out at 40mins before its uncomfortable, it is pain+worry that gets me up out of my chair. I know in my physio some people from week 6 were doing an hour and some 5-10mins so it is a suck it and see. Like me I imagine everyone gets infuriated with sitting as its something we do to drive, bus, cinema, work. So what I would say is listern to your body over what a physio says. If at week 6 someone had said sit 40mins to me I would of been at 5-8/10. Also my sitting is 40mins stand, walk around and after 3-5mins resume sitting. I find I drink A LOT more tea now:) It just breaks the sitting up and you don't feel like your doing it for the injury but more 'a break'.
Mobility: Hamstrings and calfs people!!! I couldn't believe how much muscle wastage has occured in my left leg over my right. The result is I spend a lot of my evening stretching then doing insane amounts of one leg squats and calf raises. It is soooo boring but its all a means to an end and I fully feel now im 60% back to normal. I find bending is now done as it should be, at the knees and now hip but this hasn't effected what I can lift too much. At the gym I pickup 2 x 20kg dumbells do do bicep training and lunges. I don't do heavy weights at present (previous squats 180kg normal weight) but give it time and I fully intend to work my way up.
Core: We aren't allowed to do situps. The physio just has us doing crunches. I wish I'd had this physio 20yrs ago because I seriously have a six pack for the 1st time ever!!! Also dorsal flexions to stabalise the back. Now these still make the lower spine feel bruised but I'm told its fine to do. One thing on your core. I initially laid face down weeks 0-9 because I thought thats the position i was in for surgery and it would help the healing, and maybe it did but now when I lay on my stomach and stand up Im very stiff? Yet laid on my back I have no problems or stiffness. Im presuming its just part of the healing.
Life in general: Very good, but cautious. I don't wish to ever ever have this return as it did pre-op. It destroyed my life. I do go out, have meals, go drinking etc but I always take a bit of care that i don't sit too long by setting my stopwatch on count back when I sit. Once the alarm goes if I've had a few beers it just reminds me I'm not 100% fit. I will probably do this for a long while yet.
Kit I still use: A lumbar support after my working hours when I tend to 'lounge around' and I know i take up bad posture positions. It just keeps me in line. I would invert £10 in one. Mine has magnets and 4 thing rods and works a treat. Ice as I've said I used it twice daily pre-op and occassionally now.
Any questions from anyone I will try to get back to you and I wish those that have exhausted their options and been told its surgery all the best.
Week 16
Week 14-16 have been quite uneventful and I can only see this as a good thing. I've continued with the physio, swimming and walk/jogging and had relatively few niggles. I had only one day I would class as bad and I required an ibuprofen on the evening but I think that was because I moved 250kg of cement for my brother using a spade (Stupid I know!!!).
So the current regime I have pinned down for 4 days a week is:
0700hr - 0800hr Stretched using my theraband. Mainly this is for my hamstrings/glutes
0800hr - 1200hr Work
01200hr - 1300hr Swim (A proper swim now. 64 lengths)
1400hr - 1700hr Work
1800hr - 2000hr Stetches/core strengthening local gym and weights
I work from home so these 4 days include weekends as physio days change but usually 1/2 days a week.
I apologise I cannot remmeber his name but I know there was someone pre-surgery that asked me abouts weights at the gym. Now at present I can cross train on interval level 12 (of 16) for an hour. Alternatively I can cycle for an hour at level 5-7. In the last week I've dropped 2 of my days cardio for weights and I think this is what gave me my one bad day. HOWEVER, I've found 2 exercises that seem to have improved me state.
1) Seated bicep curls for me using 35kg. The issue is getting the weight to the starting position without leaning of the arm rest and trying to bring it up (A definate NO NO). But once its up and I get going (10-20reps x 3) I have have been feeling better. Now I don't know if this is because its pulled slightly at the scar tissue left and helped clear it but I definately have been feeling better.
2) Using an over head weight where you stand upright and pull the cords (in my gym) down from above your head and doing tricep pushes downwards (for me 65kg). Im sure someone could explain it better sorry. Again it uses the arms but pulls upwards on the lumbar area so again Im presuming this is alleviating any spinal pressure.
Now as both these don't put weights down through the spine I imagine people that go to the gym more often than me will find more similar exercises where the weight is seated or returns to a position above you. Bench press is a goer aswell but the physio told me the feet must be up on the bench so the soles or your feet, buttocks, shoulders, neck and head must all be in contact with the bench - please take note of this gym goers.
2 BIG NO's I found at the gym. Were hanging from a bar!!! This was my ibuprofen day! I still dont understand it as like the 2 above exercises my logic was its putting no pressure through the spine but hell no will I do it again! The second and clearly most obvious is squatting with weight. Now I can do 400 squats on each leg at present with no weight but when I used 20kg at the gym it was uncomfortable so I've left this for now until I can rebuild myself better.
I have swapped road jogging for the gym equipment but stil twice a week push out 2 x 7mile walk/jogs. I would say now at least 6 miles (of 7) is jogged and I find it fine. Just requiring a lay down for 30mins after.
General pain - Walking 1/10 for the first mile then 0-1/10 after that (weird). Sleeping (painfree). Areas the pain occurs: The left ankle and left buttock.
Finally and I say this probably more for the men as I don't know implications for women. I started last month taking ProMax protein as the muscle wastage of the 2 years prior to surgery was significant. In the last month i've definately put weight on my legs and at present I can only see this as a positive for a stability point of view. Wouldn't mind hearing from anyone else thats tried this? I wouldn't of started taking it earlier as acitivity was minimal and i was told taking it then would of just made me gain fat - NOT Helpful.
Sorry I cannot give more info this week but as at the start I seem to have had a slight plateau (which I am not going to complain about).
Wish people well with their recoveries and injuries.
Post op questions
Hi microsuccess
I find your post hugely helpful and encouraging. Lots of detail combined with a postive outlook makes me all the more determind to work hard at my recovery post microdiscectomy op. I wondered if I could ask you a few questions? Hope that's ok.
1) you mention a bandage round the nerve pain leg is this just when doing stretching exercises? Also you mentioned to wrap it round the calf to knee - the residual pain I have is in my thigh so should I wrap the bandage round the thigh do you think or just the calf?
2) my leg nerve pain has remained about 30% of the pre op pain but I am 10 days post op tomorrow, which feels slow but I wondered when do you think you really 'noticed' no leg pain days/times?
3) I have only today started a few stretches as my physio told me not to do anything other than walk/move till now, but when I stretch my right leg (sciatica leg) when lying down I can only stretch it about 30 degrees off the floor, which was the sane prior to the op. Did you have this tightness/pain when first stretching? The idea of doing any kinda gym work at the mo seems so far off. The leg doesn't hurt with pain as it did but the pain is 'awakened' if I stretch the leg or walk for too long.
4) I'm still on ibroprofen and paracetamol and need these. I was on 4 tramadol pre op then post op was in 2x tramadol but since Wednesday just taken one tramadol at night. Worried I'm not coming off painkillers enough at the mo but i still feel I need these. Do you reckon this is ok 10 days after op?
Sorry for the barrage of questions but so nice to ask someone who's been through it and has a realistic view!
Thanks, Sali
Ps. Been doing no baby lifting of my 5month old, which is tough but definitely neccessary!
I'm into week 3
Crickey Microsuccess, that is so impressive! Well done you! :dance:
Sali- I'm so glad to hear you are on the mend. I had about 30 degrees of lift in my sciatic leg, post op. I held a scarf around my foot and pulled my leg straight. I made a note how far I could get it (without discomfort but with a bit of stretch) and gradually over the days I can get my leg near vertical. Im sure it will come, theres probably a lot of muscle wastage/damage to build back up.
It's all going well here except for some mighty eye-watering nerve twinges in left hip & leg when I moved in bed or when lying on the sofa. I thought I had dislocated my hip. II had a follow-up physio appointment and came away with stomach muscle tightening exercises and advised to stand a lot on my still numb foot (like a stork) to re-educate my damaged nerves. Last night I was still in constant agony from the twanging nerve so moved into the spare bed in desperation. Instant relief! Friend kindly swapped my older mattress for the new firmer spare one and I have just had a super night's sleep.
I have been walking lots; I need to get in shape to exercise the hound. However my legs are very tired. I can walk 100 paces then have to have a little rest. I can do a fair distance, over a mile, like this but I have quite a way to go to get back to normal. I want to shout at my legs to Keep up! They just want to dawdle.
I'm allowed to sit this week but after 15 minutes my back starts to sag so I lie down for a while.
Im off Paracetamol now, just a bit of Voltarol cream on my numb foot at night as it gets a bit tingly.
Im about to contact local surgery to get some physio arranged and then its the long slow road back to work. I am self employed so can decide when but as I had quite a bit of surgery, I think it will be 8-10 weeks from the operation date.
Salimali reply
Hi, always happy to help
1) Bandage: I was told the S1 nerve in the left leg descends as far as the ankle. The bandage is to kind of muffle the nerve signal. In week 1-6 I had the bandage on whenever I was static really, so bed (but not sleeping), sitting etc. Week 6-12 it was more a comfort thing so if the nerve started getting over excited I would put it on. So Im clear the bandage is standard 4inch across flexible bandage like they'd put on a sprain. I don't wrap the foot. It starts on the ankle bone and wraps round until the top of the calf but as long as it cover approx 10-12inchs it seemed to do the trick. If your pains in the thigh I'm not sure, I would try one or the other or both, annoyingly this injuries hit and miss on techniques that help hence some need 8 tramadol and some 1. A positive for you though is our physio rule of thumb for us is the further up the leg the pain is the better the less damage has occured to the nerve, and in her experience the quicker the recovery. I understand her logical as my ankle pain by far and away is the worst for me and the further up the leg the less the pain and the more 'annoying/tight' the symptoms. Im 4+month and i do get random ankle pain but mainly buttock pain now so her logic seems to fit as those with higher up pain seem to have out shone me in recovery sessions.
2) Pain: 30% sounds exactly like myself and I don't want to scare you but week 6-8 for me it spiked up to 60-70% on some days and I just wanted to die. BUT its all part of the nerve carrying out its diagnostics up and down its length. It is very slow, but dont panic it will come, just give it time. I would say in my rehab group people in week 10-16 have few complaints. As for when no leg pain thats tough, I stopped taking drugs weeks ago when sleeping, standing (1hour) became none-painful but 'pains' still continue, its just well under 10% so i just see it as something thats going to take a bit longer. Remember the actual full recover is estimated 6-12 months so you are still in the infancy of recovery. Just keep reminding yourself that so you dont over work yourself.
3) Tightness: YES YES YES and I still have it now. Don't fret, I could put the backs of my hands on the floor pre-op and now im 1 1/2 foot off the floor when I bend forward. Don't worry about this, the scar tissue, muscle wastage, muscle tightness, nerve itself all factor in here. As a test if you touch the surgical area in a week or so you will feel a lump under the skin, THAT is the scar tissue you feel and there will be more inside you can't feel. At week 8-10 that will had gone considerably so just remember its a fressh wound, they've taken a piece out of you and your body wants to heal it before it lets it function again fully. e.g. you don't break your leg and 2 weeks later get up and do a dance on it! Thats why the stretches should be light and should be only 30 degrees off the floor. DONT push that really really let your body recovery and guide you that awakening pain should be your signal to let off a bit maybe. I know thats an annoying saying but really treat it like a broken leg.
4) Drugs: WOW thats brilliant if your coming off the tramadol like that but just be aware you may get a bit sickly feeling and the pain may ramp up espically as the tramadol mimicks the nerve signals to try to get you back on them. Sali seriously at 10 days out on 1 tramadol a day that it amazing!!! I was not doing that for maybe a month and I HATE drugs and was desperate to get off them. YOU SHOULD need these (my surgeons comments) for up to 6 weeks like you did prior surgery!!! so don't do yourself down you sound like your doing fanatastic - I can only say that based on where i was and I'd say your 10day point is like my 4-5 week point!
Ok so remember YOU HAVE HAD MAJOR SURGERY which doesn't heal in a few weeks:D You need to watch you dont go totally cold turkey on your pills as the nerves undergone a long period of suffering and needs helps 'calming down' so think of the nerve like a weightlifter does his muscles: He eats well, he looks after the muscle and after strenuous exercise (your surgery eqivilent) he needs to let it rest and take his protein shakes (your drugs) to let it rebuild so the muscle memory remember how to function again with ever increasing weight. I probably didnt explain it well but just know your doing great:)
Thanks microsuccess for your once again, reassuring and encouraging reply!
I have started with trying the bandage today on my calf, so I'll see how that goes! I also started stretching leg with a theraband, though very gently and not pushing anything too much. What you said about the painkillers is good too, for some reason reading lots of post on this forum I felt like I should be off them more quickly as very dependent on paracetamol and ibroprofen throughout the day and one tramadol at night, but from what you mention I thought how 3 weeks ago paracetamol didn't make the blind bit of difference to the pain, whereas it does now, so that has to be progress!!
Your group physio session sounds great! It must help to chat to others in similar situations!
Keep up your good recovery!
I too have had lots of tingling but in my lower leg and ankle where the sciatic nerve had been so compressed. I wear a decompression stocking on that foot most of the day and night when it is worse as I can't bear the sheets touching it. The stocking stays on very well. They were issued in the hospital.
I tried this following Micosucess's tip re. bandaging.
Another question - sorry!!
Hi
So sorry for asking yet another question - but more help asking here than calling the doctor is seems! Basically, I've been making improvement during the day but recently the nights have become painful and I keep walking with pain pretty much like before the op (tho day much better). I'm taking one tramadol before bed but wonder if I should go back to taking amitriptaline at night and stop the bedtime tramadol. If its the nights that are causing the most problem would amitriptaline be better. Also, any idea why the nights are worse post op? It used to be the other way round before surgery and I'd long for bedtime but at the minute I really don't like the nights.....an I doing too much in the day? So many questions......it all feels so lonely recovering from this, we're every change in pain makes me panic!!!! Thanks for any advice! sali
Hi,
Sleep: Yep I got the same and its a bumpy road up until 4-8weeks. Randomly pre-op I could lay on my left but not my right and post-op it switched sides. I would suggest a neoprene lumbar brace, they are £8-10 off ebay. If you put it on at night it keeps the core in line and should give some relief. I was told its to do with the muscles when you sleep relaxing, so because of the surgery the area they operated on gets pulled and dragged out of the allignment it would prefer to stay in while healing. If you dont want a lumbar belt then try sleeping on the opposite side to the surgery - so i had L5/S1 Left side and find sleeping on my right best. I initially placed a pillow behind my back to stop me rolling during the night.
The trick is doing the core exercises during the day and only putting the brace on at night so you muscles take the strain during the day and build up.
Drugs: I was on the tramadol for up to consistently post op up to week 4 but found in week 5 amitriptyline much better because: its the only nerve pain specific medication, its drowsy and helps you sleep, it doesn't attach to the nerve receptors so has limited side effects. My most effective use of drugs (on a rough day) was at 9pm taking an ibuprofen and 1 amitriptyline so it countered in internal inflamation and the nerve pain.
Like you said you can certainly over do it in the early days and the lumbar muscles will fatigue easily because while the incision of the op is same you must remember they've cut through hardened muscle thats taken you a life time to build up. The body will heal but needs time.
Hope this helps in some way
Week 18
Another 2 weeks down and a big smiles been creeping across my face.
I've had 5 days in the last 2 weeks when I've had 0-1/10 for 50-70% of my days. In the mornings I've been less stiff and found 2 more exercises that seem to be helping my recovery:)
Firstly the dorsal raise. You lay stomach down on the floor and raise the upper body a few inches off the floor (keeping the hips on the floor). Initially I was doing these infrequently as the area around the incision became slightly tender and felt bruised. The last 2 weeks I've been placing a 2.5-10kg weight around the should area of my back when doing these. I noticed after a week I was much less stiff when standing. The physio believes its just an indicator there's still scar tissue to be worked off internally.
The side plank. Now prior to hospital I could only lay on one side and if I rolled onto the other in the night it was agony. Post -Op I can lay on both but I favour one side as it brings on nearly zero pain. This last 2 weeks I been using the plank exercise on the sides to try strengthen them up. 1min on 4mins off, 1min on. I do this 3 times per day. 2 weeks on and last night I actually went to sleep on my other side! and when I awoke I had zero pain.
I cannot state these exercises are the cause as I still do all my exercises. What I am starting to feel like now at 2 1/2yrs is Im recovering. As in the sciatic pain is getting better and I can actually feel week on week clear differences in my ability to sit, walk, jog, do weights etc.
One thing that really brightened my day was seeing and old work colleague. He was hurt in a car accident 9 months ago (I didn't know). He was given emergency surgery 5 days after the crash on his L5/S1 left-right. I never would have known unless he showed me his scar. He said 8 months was his zero pain barrier!!!! I'm so excited, only because I'm the old man of my rehab group and hes 4 years older than me.... So there's hope for the mid forties plus group:D
Hope everyone is doing well