RE: got a prolapsed disk
Hello to all...
I have a prolapsed dics and its worn out, like kev25v6 said.. on the mri scanthe disc isblack instead of white ie like a old persons. My consultant also found that i have 2 fractures in my spine too. (im 32 yrs old). i have been on all sorts of pain killers. I started on co-codamal 8-500mg, upto 30-500mg ,diclofenicwhich had no affect what so ever, then tramodol and now on to morphine 120mg per day and ibuprofen 400mg 4 times a day, and wishthese would stop the pain... i now have hip pain, arm and shoulderpains , swollen feet and legs and just like so many other people,am so depressed, which ive also got tablets for. Ive been like this since before christmas. im now can not walk without mywalking stick.
Chris mentioned Tramadol, these are a drug that in easier terms numb the central nerves.
When i was on them, i had very little feeling in the more sensertive areas, and there was no chance of an orgasm, so i dont think you should really worry, your doctor should have told you this.
Ive read through so many of these forums and it seems that so few people get the same advice from anywhere. i have a phiso that whats me to do as little as possible but to keep moving around in short, gentlemovements, anda consultant that wants me to do everything as normal which is obviously inpossible.
I was given the choose to have the op of spinal fusion and bone grafting which after alot of thought and looking into and reading lots, i have decided to have it done. i am due to have to op at the end of August time and im really scared but i beleive i dont have that much choose, be like this for a very long time or take the chance that it could be better... and i feel its worth a chance as i cant be like this any longer than i have to...
I have always been in the bars and restauant bussiness and i now have to re-think my career path as, i dont think ill be able to run round like i used to, doing 60-80 hrs a week... 🙁
The only thing we can all do is tobe positive about our problems and believethat it all happens for a reason and make it a positive thinginstead of a negitive.....
Good Luck to everyone!!!!!
Karen
RE: got a prolapsed disk
Hi there
I have just recieved a letter from the Doctor saying that on advice from the Physio' dep't he has referred me to the Rhumatology dept't "about having an epidural" and that they should be sending me an appointment in due course.
Will they do a scan before sticking the needle in me back i wonder?
I once had "tennis elbow" many years ago and the then Doc' said to give it a couple of weeks before i made another app't and that when i did, to tell the receptionist that i was to have a cortisone injection so that there would be a nurse in attendance "to keep my arm still".Within a week the "tennis elbow" cured itself and 12 years later has no come back!!
I hope this threat of an epidural with have the same effect.
With regards to impotence, i can cofirm that it is all due to the Tramadol.
Without scaring me to death, does anyone out there have any positive things to say about epidural injections.
All the best Chris
RE: got a prolapsed disk
I had an epidural several months ago and have to say found it to provide only very short term relief and didn't remedy the underlying problem which was a disk sticking in the nerves. I've heard it works for some people (solves the issue), gives temporary relief to others (in my case about a week) and for others does nothing. It's not the most pleasant experience in the world but may be worth a shot though I know others on the forum think it's a waste of time as doesn't address the underlying issue.
RE: got a prolapsed disk
Thanks for that Steve.
I was rather hoping someone would come on and say that it worked ok.
At least the N H S will have gone through the various proceedures (if it doesn't work) and the next step will be an op' which if they said "tommorrow" i'd go willingly.
We will just have to see ,eh. Chris
RE: got a prolapsed disk
I'm now 9 weeks post op for a microdiscectomy and have to say it has changed my life. Gone is the back pain almost completely and this has changed my state of mind incredibly. I know a lot of people are against ops but I tried everything else and put off an op for as long as possible. In all honesty now though, Iwish I'd just got it sorted ages ago.
Obviously I have a dodgy back for life and am now far more conscious of keeping it strong (exercises every morning, regular pilates, swimming most days) but it is such a relief to be out of the sort of pain I was in before.
I'm not saying everyone should try and get an op as it's been well documented (here and elsewhere) that they don't work for everyone (I feel very lucky), so try everything else first but as a last resort it's not as bad an experience as you might expect.....
RE: got a prolapsed disk
I couldn't agree more I have had problems with Disc Prolapses and Sciatic pain for the last 20 years. For the last month I was unable to walk or do anything except lie flat without excruciating pain. I had a microdiscectomy 6 days ago and I am now walking to the park twice a day with my kids and I have had no leg pain at all. I am absolutely delighted with the results
so far I couldn't of dreamed for a better outcome I have got my life back again and hope to go back to work in about 3/4 weeks.
When the first consultant who I had seen a couple of times previously last year suggested
surgery I was very sceptical and went to get a second opinionand the second consultant gave the same opinion. I continued to hope the pain would subside as it had on previous occasions however if anything it was getting worse despite a cocktail of drugs and physio.
Unfortunately had I waited to see a consultant on the NHS and then wait for the surgery on the waiting list it would have taken me at least 9 months in my area(South EastLondon).
I was lucky enough to have the savings to pay for this myself privately thus saving myself
8 months of additional pain not to mention the fact I am self-employed and hence would have had no income whatsoever, so the surgery will pay for itself. This has seriously dented my faith
in the NHS and will now seriosuly look at medical insurance which previously I had always
thought was overpriced and unnecessary.
RE: got a prolapsed disk
Got a bit of an update of whats wrong with my back now, ive finally got a letter from my consultant showing the problems.Forward flexion is reduced to 50% and extension very limited. Disc dehydration and minor loss of height at L3/4 L4/5 L5/S1 with a lesser degree of dehydration at L2/3 and a prolapsed disc (cannot find sheet for disc number).Ive got two tears also somewhere in wih that lot.
He said there is no point in surgery on me as it would make no difference with me having more than two dehydrated discs. He said it would not repair itself and that it cannot be 'just fixed'. He reccomended steroid injections into my spine around the discs, four in total. Does this really help with the pain? My current medication does nothing for me, 300mg tramadol and 600mg diclofenac a day and 10 mg of amitriptyline to help me sleep if i need it at night.
Any advice on this problem would be gratefully appreciated.
RE: got a prolapsed disk
Hi all
I have read through this thread and i'm starting to feel fortunate!!
I have a prolapse disk L5/S1 paracentral and a smallannular tear on left side. myDisc space has considerable dehydration
This i believe has been caused by a very poor posture at work i'm 6'4" and my chosen sport which is body building..
This happened i believe about 4 weeks ago the burning pain in my leg is starting to slowly subside which my consultant says is the disc dehydrating further.
The pain two weeks after was unbearable...ended up going to doctors in spain for daily antiflamatory injections which did nothing..the diclafenic caused me to urinate blood...now on Celebrex
Today i have started a 6 week physio course i am told i have a grade 4 injury after 6 weeks i may need steriod injections.
As i am very active i was more than willing to have either injections or an op to resolve quickly......i have been advised to avoid both of these...
I have also been told i will need to change my lifestyle.
I will keep everybody up to date with my progress.
It seems my experiance is minor to everybody else so i wish you all the best and try to stay positive....
RE: got a prolapsed disk
Hi i used to be chrisjt but for some reason i cannot use that sign in name any more so Bodger will do for now.I saw a specialist 10 days ago and he says i need an epidural and will send me for it a s a p .I put it to him that they were not a success in most cases to which he seemed miffed and sail he had a 100% success rate. However he did qualify this by saying that the injection is not meant to be a cure!! He said none can cure a prolapsed disc and that even operations don't cure the condition." You have it so you have to cope with it
I said that i would go tomorrow but of course I'll have to wait but for how long i ask.
I'm going to see the Doc' next Monday to see if he can it any "hurry up".
Will keep you posted. Bodger or chrisjt
RE: got a prolapsed disk
Its been about 5 months now and im still in a lot of pain. Ive got more movement now and im trying to start back at work again but now im behind a counter with no heavy lifting so hopefully ill be able to manage. Im hoping to have facet joint injections done soon to help with the pain, im due to have four done at once, one above and below my discs on either side of my spine, ill let you know if they help or not. Ive got an appointment at the pain clinic at my local hospital on the NHS to discuss further treatments but im not holding my breath that they will be able to rid me of this problem any time soon. Ive had a few days behind the counter at work and my back seems to be aching more than usual but i hate being sat at home i like to be at work earning my way. My meds have changed to 2 30mg tablets 3 times a day of dihydrocodine and diclofenac (sp) but they dont really help. I try to keep the doseage down when i can because i dont want to have to rely on tablets the rest of my life. Ill keep this thread updated if and when i get some different treatment that helps.
RE: got a prolapsed disk
Hello all, ive got another update on my back now, for anyone whos been following this thread.
Ive just had my facet joint injections on the 11th december and four days later my back is feeling a lot better than what is has been doing for the last few months. They have not got rid of all the pain but it has meant i can cut down on the amount of tablets i take a day. I still have to take some of them but they seem to do more now than what they did before the injections. I was recently put on Baclofen tablets, a muscle relaxant, and they worked well for about a week, i seem to get used to most things pretty quickly and the effect they have on the pain gets less and less with each day.
I would recommend the injections to people suffering with back pain like mine, i can bend more, lift more, be more comfy walking around, get a better nights sleep!!!
They only took around 15 mins to do. It was done under local anasthetic and the consultant said he would start with four and see how i go and try and get six. I wondered what he meant at first and so asked him if i was going to feel it. YES was his answer which started me getting nervous. I was bent forward over a table in the theatre, with my bum showing to the world, and he started with 2 local injections to numb the area then he put 2 bigger needles in ready for the steroid. He kept asking if i was ok and it was'nt too bad really so he set up the 3rd needle for the left side. Then came the steroid and thats when it started to hurt more. It was like someone digging their thumb into a tender part on my back. He did the 3rd steroid injection and i had to have a bit of oxygen to help me relax more. Two minutes later he had got the other needles all set up in my back and was pushing the steroid into my right side. I barely noticed it once i had had the oxgen mask on to calm me down. For a few hours afterwards i seemed to have no pain and could reach down in bed and almost touch my toes, before i could just reach my knees and be in pain. Ive got physio to do again now and will be back to see the consultant in six weeks for a follow up meeting. Hopefully i will be more on the road to recovery by then and be able to do things everyone else can do, play football, do the decorating, go to the gym etc. Today i was told about a place that does accupuncture and apparently the guy who does it is very good and can leave you feeling relaxed for days afterwards. I think i will give it a try again, the last time i had it i may as well had stuck sewing needles in my own back for all the help it did.
Sorry for the long post but hopefully it may encourage others to have the injections, it has given me more hope that i will be able to do normal stuff once more.
Kev.
RE: got a prolapsed disk
Hi- I'm glad you found facet injections useful-not really alternative therapy unless you count the inevitable placebo effect though! Seriously, I have done facet injections for the last 13 years, probably on about 1000 patients and there is certainly a placebo effect which confounds the issue but I think it works on about 60%. This is pretty good for back treatment and at least the risk of doing harm is slight.
Looking through the postings I am alarmed by the importance given to MRI changes. I report these too and "black" discs are certainly abnormal but not an indication that this is the cause of pain. Like white hair is not an indication of senility. Even a disc prolapse on MRI may not be the cause of pain and you should certainly not jump to surgery since there is a good chance that this will make things worse. It has been shown that the more MRI scans done, the more backs get surgery and the worse the patients outcome. If you are considering surgery your orthopaedic surgeon should be trying to talk you out of it!
Following the principle of "first do no harm" I would recommend facet injections before surgery but it is only a temporary measure I tell patients to expect 3-6 month relief.
RE: got a prolapsed disk
Ive been told by the consultants that the pain im getting is not from the black discs but from the nerves being squashed slightly due to the discs dehydrating and losing some height. I am not a candidate for surgery with me having at least 3 dehydrated discs. They can operate on 1-2 discs and show an improvement but there is no improvement after surgery with 3 or more dehydrated discs. This was found through research done on coal miners in the late 80's. Some of the miners showed the black discs and lived a normal life with next to no pain while others had slightly black discs and were in extreme pain all of the time. There is still not enough known about the causes of dehydrated discs and why some people experiance pain whiles others do not.
Im finding as the days go on since the injections that i am still having to take the pain killers nearly as often as before them. I was told that they are not a cure to my problem but that they might take away more of the pain so that i can do more intensive physio to strengthen the muscles in my back so that i can lead a normal life, im only 24.
RE: got a prolapsed disk
Kev,
The black discs are called dessicated discs but it is not certain that there is a loss of water causing this appearance but there is a change in chemical structure. This is not a cause of pain. There are various causes of pain but its not well worked out. The most straight forward is when the soft central part of the disc is squeezed out and presses on a nerve as it passes out through the spinal canal. This causes sciatica i.e. pain down a leg clearly related to the region supplied by that nerve-usually the back of the calf. The prolapse often shrinks back with time but these patients also do well with surgery or chemolysis (dissolving the centre of the disc with enzymes). Sometimes the pain comes from nerve fibres in the disc itself when there is an annular tear and this can be confirmed with discography (horrible to do and to have done!). If this is confirmed then some surgeons will fuse the spine across the abnormal disc or possibly two ( I think this is what your surgeon is referring to). More than two levels is hardly ever done. Other times the abnormal disc loses height and this puts stress on the facet joints which then become swollen and eventually arthritic. These can cause pain like any other joint and the pain may be felt down a leg because the nerve that goes down the leg has a branch to the facet but the swollen joint can also press on the nerve and, again cause a sciatica type pain. No-one seems to operate on these but sometimes the swelling is so much (generally in the elderly) that the whole spinal canal is narrowed which causes pain on walking down both legs (spinal claudication). Steroid injections reduce some of the swelling and reduce inflamation.
I presume your surgeon did the injection using X-ray guidance. These joints are tiny and deep and I know of people (some medically qualified too) who claim they can inject them by feel. I'm not sure whether it makes much difference whether you inject into the joint or round the outside but I'm pretty sure they cannot safely get within several cm of the joint blindly. If you had some relief it might be worth another try-its not a once and for all treatment. There are some people trying to freeze or burn the nerves to the facets but much of this is driven by private practice and the manufacturers of the equipment and I would steer clear. These nerves grow back.
There are people trying Botox to relieve spasm (which often agrevates the pain) but I have no experience of this.
I would say stick with facet injections once more. I prefer to inject the upper end of the joints so that steriod also seeps around the nerve as it passes next to it but I know the radiologists in Oxford inject the nerve and the facet as separate procedures-I prefer a belt and braces approach.
Regards and good luck
RE: got a prolapsed disk
The surgeon did it with the help of X-rays and my mri scans. I did not know about the fact it can cause artheritis in the joints. Do you know how many injections of steroid can be done in a year? I was told that i can only have so much per year and that if i had, for example, 10 injections, the doses would be quite small in each injection, like i could have 100mg steroid in either 1 injection or 10 injections, is this right?