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Gout


Tashanie
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Much to my horror it appears I may have developed Gout, Any suggestions for how I can mitigate the effects and reduce the frequency of attacks? I know all the conventional remedies in the form of drugs - but I am looking for the unconventional

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amy green
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Oh I am sorry to hear you have this. My mother (who is 94) is currently experiencing this very painful illness. I don't know of any alternative treatments but the GP said for her to drink lots of water to help lessen the severity of the attack.

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jnani
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HiTashanie
My husband developed some swelling and pain in his right knee. 5 doctors said 5 different things. Gout, bakers cyst, arthritis, rheumatic arthritis and one said it is age related wear and tear.

We restored the balance of the body by responding to it this way:
1. Have stings of stingy nettles every other day
2.ginger tea. Add ginger shavings on food, eat raw, whichever way, just consume ginger!
3 another little traditional concoction that is suitable inflation and pain...and it counteracts the swelling in the joint: turmeric and ginger boiled in milk. This drink is a bit of acquired taste, but when you know it is helping you it becomes more palatable...
4. Cinnamon in warm water empathy stomach( didn't do this trick so earnestly, but it is extremely good for similar conditions)
5. Cut out all sugar, even honey. Cut out wine
6. Vayu mudra for 40 minutes everyday. [DLMURL="http://www.atmabodh.net/vayu_mudra"]Vayu Mudra for Rheumatism, Arthritis, Gout, Parkinson[/DLMURL]
7. Did some gentle yoga
8. Kept high spirits in terms of finding balance within oneself.

He did this for 2 days and reported that he felt 70% better. He followed this regime strictly for about 10 days and it is back to normal.
Now he takes ginger when he remembers. Is back to normal. He does not take things that seriously.
Pretty much as if it didn't happen in the first place.
Now time scale might be a little different for everyone but hope this helps

(Whatever it is don't let it come in the way of having a good time at Christmas Tashanie!)
May the body find its balance
Love

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CarolineN
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Hi Sally

Sorry to hear that - avoid foods high in purines. I'll fill in tomorrow - I'm off to take hubby to have his cataract done.

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Lynora
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Husband had his first bout of gout about a year ago. It came back with a vengeance at the beginning of November - but something about it wasn't right, and after 20 days of pain, heat in the joint, swelling and feeling generally wabbit, I took him back to the GP who confirmed my suspicion - cellulitis! After 12 days of anti-biotics he is now much better, with a very scaly foot (as a result of the swelling).

He has been careful with his eating habits since the original bout. Rarely drinks beer nowadays & has virtually given up marmite - his one secret addition! - and only has 1 or 2 pieces of bread in a day. He makes/eats curry based meals several times a week - putting in fresh ingredients - and picking up what Jnani has mentioned - one main ingredient is fresh ginger! He was told that wine made absolutely no difference, so continues to enjoy it, in moderation. He tried apple cider vinegar foot baths also Epsom Salts foot baths, and whilst comforting, did little to relieve the pain - only regular paracetamol did that (but not for the cellulitis!).

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Tashanie
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Hi Sally

Sorry to hear that - avoid foods high in purines. I'll fill in tomorrow - I'm off to take hubby to have his cataract done.

Thanks Caroline - I've already checked that one out. Hope cataract surgery goes OK

Sally

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Tashanie
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HiTashanie
My husband developed some swelling and pain in his right knee. 5 doctors said 5 different things. Gout, bakers cyst, arthritis, rheumatic arthritis and one said it is age related wear and tear.

We restored the balance of the body by responding to it this way:
1. Have stings of stingy nettles every other day
2.ginger tea. Add ginger shavings on food, eat raw, whichever way, just consume ginger!
3 another little traditional concoction that is suitable inflation and pain...and it counteracts the swelling in the joint: turmeric and ginger boiled in milk. This drink is a bit of acquired taste, but when you know it is helping you it becomes more palatable...
4. Cinnamon in warm water empathy stomach( didn't do this trick so earnestly, but it is extremely good for similar conditions)
5. Cut out all sugar, even honey. Cut out wine
6. Vayu mudra for 40 minutes everyday. [DLMURL="http://www.atmabodh.net/vayu_mudra"]Vayu Mudra for Rheumatism, Arthritis, Gout, Parkinson[/DLMURL]
7. Did some gentle yoga
8. Kept high spirits in terms of finding balance within oneself.

He did this for 2 days and reported that he felt 70% better. He followed this regime strictly for about 10 days and it is back to normal.
Now he takes ginger when he remembers. Is back to normal. He does not take things that seriously.
Pretty much as if it didn't happen in the first place.
Now time scale might be a little different for everyone but hope this helps

(Whatever it is don't let it come in the way of having a good time at Christmas Tashanie!)
May the body find its balance
Love

Thanks Jnani. I have to be careful not to upset my cystitis so too much ginger is out sadly. (God i HATE getting older!!!! I know have IBS, IC, and gout along with a total lack of thyroid!!!!)

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Tashanie
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Husband had his first bout of gout about a year ago. It came back with a vengeance at the beginning of November - but something about it wasn't right, and after 20 days of pain, heat in the joint, swelling and feeling generally wabbit, I took him back to the GP who confirmed my suspicion - cellulitis! After 12 days of anti-biotics he is now much better, with a very scaly foot (as a result of the swelling).

He has been careful with his eating habits since the original bout. Rarely drinks beer nowadays & has virtually given up marmite - his one secret addition! - and only has 1 or 2 pieces of bread in a day. He makes/eats curry based meals several times a week - putting in fresh ingredients - and picking up what Jnani has mentioned - one main ingredient is fresh ginger! He was told that wine made absolutely no difference, so continues to enjoy it, in moderation. He tried apple cider vinegar foot baths also Epsom Salts foot baths, and whilst comforting, did little to relieve the pain - only regular paracetamol did that (but not for the cellulitis!).

Well interestingly Cellulitis was the other possible diagnosis from my GP. He has sone blood tests for both but since it has responded to s combination of paracetamol and and naproxen I am certain its gout. I was told to go back if it didn't get better or got worse....in which case it would have been cellulitis. At its worst I would have believed it if I had been told I had broken in a my foot as I couldn't weight bear at all on it......that was in the middle of Monday night when the pain ,which had come on gradually during Monday afternoon, was at its peak. Luckily I had some pain killers left over from my bad back in March so was able to take something strong enough to get me through the night until I could get to the docs.

So I am on regular paracetamol, have some codeine as a last resort, and am on Naproxen along with Lansprazole to protect my stomach from the Naproxen. I do not fancy taking this combination for long.......but suspect I will be told to go on regular allopurinol to prevent attacks......none of which really appeals to me.

And of course I use my feet when I drive.......so driving isn't always comfortable. Luckily its my left foot so I only use it when I change gear or brake............

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Lynora
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Husband also suspected football injury (broken metatarsal) because of the severe pain - ....also couldn't put his foot to the floor nor wear anything including socks..... - but since the most active thing he's done recently is walk the dog, and hasn't kicked a football in 50 years, made me more convinced it was more involved than gout, which last year abated after about a week with avoiding yeast/etc. He took the naproxen prescribed, but didn't think it made any difference - the antibiotics, however, started working within 24 hours.

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Tashanie
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Husband also suspected football injury (broken metatarsal) because of the severe pain - ....also couldn't put his foot to the floor nor wear anything including socks..... - but since the most active thing he's done recently is walk the dog, and hasn't kicked a football in 50 years, made me more convinced it was more involved than gout, which last year abated after about a week with avoiding yeast/etc. He took the naproxen prescribed, but didn't think it made any difference - the antibiotics, however, started working within 24 hours.

Thats what had me puzzled when it first started hurting. I couldn't think what I'd done to it!!! And in the wee small hours when I had to resort to a cocktail of drugs it was really red and hot. That happily has subsided (along with the pain) so it cannot be cellulitis.....not that a diagnosis of gout is much of an improvement. For the first time ever since I went self employed I had to pull out of a pharmacy booking at short notice. And I have 3 more dates in the next two weeks - which I am confident I WILL be able to do - but I am cancelling other things left right and centre so I am only doing the essentials. Thank goodness I am not cooking on Xmas Day!!!! As timing goes its dreadful!!!

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amy green
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Tashanie - I hope you don't mind me asking a gout related question on your thread. As mentioned, my mum currently has gout. She is 94 (and has chronic kidney disorder stage 3 so it's a worry - since kidney stones are one possibility stemming from gout). She is now over the worst of the pain and can walk. (It was her thumb toes that were affected).

Does anyone know whether gout is recurring or likely to be so?

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Lynora
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Yes, gout can recur - sadly!

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Tashanie
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Yes, gout can recur - sadly!

Yes - it recurs . Thats why my diagnosis has hit me rather hard and why I asked for advice. I don't like the idea of living on drugs .

Gout is caused by deposits of uric acid crystals in the joints and once they are there they tend to stay there . The big toe is a common area to be affected....but not in my case - its the foot.

A drug called Allopurinol is used to prevent attacks, and as Caroline has said high purine foods are best avoided. Its also a good idea to lose weight - and no doubt this is something my doctor will have sever words with me about

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amy green
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Thanks for answering my query.

Re. purine in foods - it's in so many foods...nightmare! Even if you go vegetarian, quite a few vegetables too. 🙁 I see anchovies are the highest though - bang goes the marinara sauce I was going to make!

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Tashanie
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Thanks for answering my query.

Re. purine in foods - it's in so many foods...nightmare! Even if you go vegetarian, quite a few vegetables too. 🙁 I see anchovies are the highest though - bang goes the marinara sauce I was going to make!

I got this from a 2004 paper in the New England Journal of Medicine

CONCLUSIONS
Higher levels of meat and seafood consumption are associated with an increased risk of gout, whereas a higher level of consumption of dairy products is associated with a decreased risk. Moderate intake of purine-rich vegetables or protein is not associated with an increased risk of gout.

There is a lot of confusing advice out there but according to this vegetables are OK.

And according to another paper the evidence for restricting purine rich foods is actually very limited....the focus seems to need to be on weight reduction.

In fact only 30% of purine comes from the diet....the rest is endogenous.....and there may be genetic factors in there as well.

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CarolineN
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Hi Sally

It would be interesting to see why the NEJM came to those conclusions. Michael Murray, one of our Nutrition Gurus, says

"A low-purine diet has long been the mainstay of dietary therapy for gout. However, with the advent of potent drugs that lower uric acid levels, many physicians choose to simply write out a prescription rather than educate the patient how to control the gout by dietary measures. Foods high in purines should be entirely omitted. These include: organ meats, meats, shellfish, yeast (brewer's and baker's), herring, sardines, mackerel, and anchovies. Foods with moderate levels of protein should be curtailed as well. These include dried legumes, spinach, asparagus, fish, poultry and mushrooms."

I surmise from the above comments that the info in the NEJM was gleaned from the pharmaceutical industry keen to promote their products rather than follow the time-honoured proven methods of dealing with the problem.

Murray also points out that weight reduction in those who are overweight significantly reduces serum uric acid levels, and that a high-fibre, low-fat diet will help do this and in addition it will reduce cholesterol and triglyceride levels. Liberal fluid intake "will promote the excretion of uric acid reducing the risk of kidney stones."

He explains among many other things that
"Alcohol increases uric acid production by accelerating purine breakdown. It also reduces uric acid excretion by increasing lactate reduction, which impairs kidney function. The net effect is a significant increase in uric acid levels. This explains why alcohol consumption is often a trigger in acute attacks of gout. Elimination of alcohol is all that is needed to reduce uric acid levels and prevent gouty arthritis in many individuals."

Murray's advice is based on biochemistry and function. Nothing to do with old wives tales! But they were sometimes right anyway.

I shall pm you Sally.

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Tashanie
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Thank you Carline I have replied 🙂 The studies I have looked at are based on knowledge of the bodies metabolism plus actually looking at the effect of various restrictions on the frequency of attacks in patients.

Since I DON"T eat many purine rich foods and don't drink a lot of alcohol I don't fit the normal picture of a gout sufferer so I am not convinced my diet is a major factor. I am sure my weight is an issue tho so I will be looking at what I can do to get to grips with that....but that has been a problem since my thyroid op.

However I maybe be overweight and euthyroid but at nearly 62 I am NOT hypertensive, diabetic or any of the other issues commonly associated with increasing maturity so I have a lot to be thankful for 🙂

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MSophie
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I personally found that the best way to combat a <a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="gout">gout attack is taking ample rest and elevating your limb to avoid accidental damages of the affected joints. Another way to apply the self-care method is keeping the affected joint cool and avoiding it from being warm. The best way to do this is to remove all the clothing around the affected region and applying a cold, ice pack on it. I hope that helped!

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LiveLonger
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hi, i see this is kind of old but i thought i would add my thoughts in case it might help some one in the future..

I suffered with gout at 24. I kept having bouts of it really bad! The GP googled gout (well searched on their intranet system) and printed off a list of foods high in purines to avoid and tried to give me allopurinal for life. That didn't seem right. I started to do some research and long story short I found the following helped

1) Drink plenty, plenty of water and green vege juice (maybe not spinach or beet greens)
2) find particular foods that set it off for sure, don't just avoid all purine foods. Beans do it for me, black beans in particular for some reason. (I eat plenty of protein and purine foods)
3) Use Enzymes on an empty stomach. I used Serrapeptase. I had some one day It was a friday, the next day I took more, I was taking 5 caps at a time. I could hardly walk and was going out to a party Saturday night, we were going to have to get a taxi and i certainly wasn't drinking as the pain was so bad. That afternoon i felt my foot fizzing. I felt the pain leave and later that night i was running up and down the street as we walked to the party. It was amazing and one of the reasons i started to study natural therapy.

I think of gout as a digestive /liver/kidney disorder. Get these things working properly and you need never worry about gout.

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Tashanie
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I was surprised to see this thread pop up again....and I realised I never posted the conclusion. My urate levels were normal, so whatever it was I had it was NOT gout. I have since then been focusing on energy work and grounding....qigong in the garden is great when I can do it!

To this day I have NO idea what was wrong or what caused it. !! I am still not convinced by the purine free diet for gout....it won;t hurt - but as I said only a proportion of purine comes from the diet.....

Getting metaphysical its all about balance - which is why energy work and grounding suited me as a way to prevent whatever it was happening again. Even though in the end I did NOT have gout....something was out of balance. Keeping my energies balanced works for me.

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LiveLonger
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Glad to hear you never had it again. The urate levels are not an accurate measurement for gout as often, by the time the crystals form, blood levels are down.

Glad you found a way to re balance. I am just re discovering grounding and I love it.
I much prefer the idea of re balancing the body rather than going after symptoms and named diseases/conditions.

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Lynora
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I wonder if it was mild cellulitis after all?

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Tashanie
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I wonder if it was mild cellulitis after all?

No such thing IMO....there were no markers for infection......and I never felt it WAS infected.....if you know what I mean.........

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