Actually I am privy to top-level MI5 investigations etc. etc. etc.
With respect, V, what is the relevance of anything you are saying here?
A family has lost a much loved father and husband, apparently as the result of an unprovoked assault committed against him by a police officer. He'd finished work and was just trying to get home.
If a member of your family had this happen to them I'm sure you would like to see the perpetrator brought to justice.
I just heard on the TV news that the police are 'trying to identify the officer involved in the unprovoked attack on Ian Tomlinson' and am wondering how there can be any difficulty in knowing who he is. Surely his colleagues who were there with him and saw what happened can identify him as can his commanding officer. Incidentally, did anyone else find it bizarre that certain police had their faces covered while the City of London police dog handlers with them were not covered up?
xxx
With respect, V,....
With respect, Barafundle, while your compassion for Tomlinson's family is admirable, and no doubt shared by us all, that isn't the thread topic either as initially begun. The opening post is an outburst, to say the least, against the police with no mention of feeling toward Tomlinson and family. So while you are most welcome of course to bring in that second, related subject, I will also post along whatever lines. Initially beginning by pointing out that we didn't have 'black/evil' and 'white/good' on the two sides there.
What struck me from one clip in the initial post here, were the calls for the ambulances to "run them over!" regarding the police. I found that very disturbing too. Along with the fact that violent damage to property had been pre-planned.
So we all post as we wish, and Ian Tomlinson per se was not the opening thread subject if you re-read it. Nevertheless compassion for his family is indeed a most worthy side-topic, if not the initial thread subject from my reading.
V
What struck me from one clip were the calls for the ambulances to "run them over!" regarding the police. Since that's there in the clip within this thread, and I found that very disturbing too, I mentioned it in this thread too.
Sorry, I've missed this clip. Where can I find it please?
xxx
I've just read this article and looked at the photos. I can see several young females with scarves across their mouths. Also I see one young white man bleeding profusely having been struck by a policeman who has a very disturbing look on his face. I'm afraid the tenor of the article is too OTT and unbalanced for me to give credence to the information it contains. 'Each meeting was attended by 15 - 20 people'???? (That bit from memory.)
BTW are there no comments on the eye witness account which I've copied in my post No. 11?
Sorry, I've missed this clip. Where can I find it please?
It's how the thread began. I think it's the first of the two links from vegan.
Edit: No, correction: it's the second clip, from just after one minute in. "Run them [the police] over!"
BTW, Sunanda, from seeing the first clip again, and the narration, I think it is indeed that incident that caused the death as you first mentioned - the one officer. Afterwards Tomlinson walks off and apparently wasn't touched again. It looks like his head hit the ground (just off-camera at that instant) though he got his arms out to cushion the fall.
What was the post-mortem? (I don't know.) As it looks as if he could only have died by damage to his head from the pushed fall, or from shock at the event (the heart).
V
Yes, as I suspected. The post-mortem found the cause of death as heart attack. The shock of the incident could certainly have led to this.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23673623-details/I%27ll+see+you+tomorrow+if+I+am+still+living+and+breathing.../article.do
The baton to the leg and the push from behind are clear on the video. Those are inexcusable, since the man was innocent. Unfortunately the police may not have had much regard for Tomlinson. Doesn't he appear to be aimless and unsteady? While he was indeed returning from work, he was apparently an alcoholic, and seems to have drunk after work: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/G20-Death-Second-Post-Mortem-Ordered-On-Body-Of-Ian-Tomlinson/Article/200904215257871?lpos=UK_News_Top_Stories_Header_0&lid=ARTICLE_15257871_G20_Death%3A_Second_Post_Mortem_Ordered_On_Body_Of_Ian_Tomlinson
That is all zero reason for the police to attack him, of course. But just for the sake of trying to put two and two together, his "clowning around", seemingly after a strong drink, may have rubbed misunderstanding police the wrong way. Still, it's no excuse at all for the push (which isn't right now a clear cause of death). There's due to be a second post-mortem.
V
It's how the thread began. I think it's the first of the two links from vegan.
Edit: No, correction: it's the second clip, from just after one minute in. "Run them [the police] over!"
Got it, thanks V. The way I see it the crowd shouts 'run them over' because a solid line of police is blocking the way the ambulance needs to go. In the circumstances I think I might well have shouted too.
xxx
With respect, Barafundle, while your compassion for Tomlinson's family is admirable, and no doubt shared by us all, that isn't the thread topic either as initially begun.
So we all post as we wish, and Ian Tomlinson per se was not the opening thread subject if you re-read it.
With respect right back at you, V, I have re-read the opening post and the topic of conversation is indeed Mr. Tomlinson and his fate at the hands of the police...
From the Gaurdian newspaper
"The Guardian obtained this footage of Ian Tomlinson at a G20 protest in London shortly before he died. It shows Tomlinson, who was not part of the demonstration, being assaulted from behind and pushed to the ground by baton-wielding police"The guy who did this to Ian Tomlinson should at the very least be charged with manslaughter.
Video proof - [url]POLICE KILLED IAN[/url]
On your extraordinary Rendition thread you expressed disgust at the torture that our government is alleged to have colluded in, and said that it could never be justified even if thought to be in the national interest. On this thread you seem to be presenting the case that says police brutality is acceptable because of that same national interest.
The torture victim, Binyam Mohamed survived his ordeal, Mr. Tomlinson didn't.
And what does Mr. Tomlinson's drinking habits have to do with anything?! He was pushed to the ground by a policeman! His son said today that if he'd done something wrong then why didn't they just take him into custody. Why knock him down?
I heard a police spokesman say on the radio today that it's difficult in these situations to distinguish protesters from innocent bystanders. His statement was revealing in that he obviously thought it was OK for the police to push protesters to the ground without provocation.
I expect that senior police officers and politicians are right now planning how they can make a very public example of that offending officer so that we can all rest easy in our beds. Either that or they'll give him a medal.
[url]Ian Tomlinson: three-year wait for G20 death verdict[/url]
From The Guardian newspaper.
If this had been a police officer that had died , it would be a very different story . 😡 The man would be behind bars now.
I have to admit that I feel compassion all round. I hope nobody will think that this detracts from what I feel about Ian Tomlinson. Although the cause of death is looking very much like a heart attack (he wasn't literally beaten to death per se), the visible push from behind was entirely wrong, and I fail to see why it was even done or the point in it.
I don't leap to point to who is a villain, however, and I read a couple of days ago that when the police officer who did that, upon realising it was him and hearing about the heart attack (or death, anyway), suffered a collapse and was found, if I recall correctly, uconscious on the floor at home. He's obviously taking this very badly indeed, and we probably aren't hearing through the media just how badly. Who among us has never made a mistake and done wrong? Let's put up our hands. (Mine is down.)
V
I don't leap to point to who is a villain, however, and I read a couple of days ago that when the police officer who did that, upon realising it was him and hearing about the heart attack (or death, anyway), suffered a collapse and was found, if I recall correctly, uconscious on the floor at home.
Strange that I haven't heard about this. Would it be provocative to ask where you found this information, V? I have searched and searched on the internet and can only find the information that the unnamed officer has been suspended. So who could know such intimate details about his being found unconscious. It does seem a bit much to believe that he only 'realised it was him' a few days after the event. Plus, if it is true that he 'collapsed' it sounds to me like a ploy to gain sympathy rather than genuine remorse. But then, what do I know?
The link above which says that it will take three years to investigate is incredible...
DOH! Silly me. Why didn't I just look in the Daily Mail and save myself the trouble. There I found:
The policeman suspended over the death of a man caught up in the G20 protest in London has been signed off sick, possibly delaying investigators from questioning him over the incident.
The officer, from the Metropolitan Polices Territorial Support Group (TSG), collapsed at his home after realising he had been captured on film allegedly pushing newspaper seller Ian Tomlinson to the ground.
Peter Smyth, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation, said last night: He has been certified sick. A senior officer travelled to where he is and suspended him in person. He was due to go away anyway. I suppose hed booked a holiday for Easter.
I note the wording that he 'collapsed' when he realised he'd been caught on film. Sort of puts a new slant on the matter. But I still wonder how the Mail manages to get this information....
Oh I give up - there's so little point in getting sucked into all this stuff. Better just to send light and love to all concerned.
xxx
Another video of G20 police brutality
I've just discovered another video clip of a policeman striking a woman protester at the G20. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6092671.ece
Worryingly, the article says that the officer had hidden his ID number and I have read that the officer who struck Ian Tomlinson had done the same thing.
Hi
Apologies I've missed a few posts, but just heard on Sky News (on at work) that a second post-mortem has revealed that Ian Tomlinson died of an abdominal haemorrage, not a heart attack as previously thought.
This to me implies that it was the result of an injury sustained during the protests, as abdominal haemorrage would not normally just happen spontaneously on such a young person, unless he had a predisposing medical condition... but now I am just speculating and could be wrong on this, waiting to hear more news.
Hi
Apologies I've missed a few posts, but just heard on Sky News (on at work) that a second post-mortem has revealed that Ian Tomlinson died of an abdominal haemorrage, not a heart attack as previously thought.
This to me implies that it was the result of an injury sustained during the protests, as abdominal haemorrage would not normally just happen spontaneously on such a young person, unless he had a predisposing medical condition... but now I am just speculating and could be wrong on this, waiting to hear more news.
I believe internal bleeding/haemorrhage can also be attributed to chronic alcoholism mortality. I mention it as it was stated earlier in the thread that Mr. Tomlinson was an alcoholic.
RxXx