MOD training deaths...
 
Notifications
Clear all

MOD training deaths - considering accountability

20 Posts
4 Users
0 Reactions
2,557 Views
amy green
(@amy-green)
Posts: 2258
Famed Member
Topic starter
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36121463


 
Posted : 24/04/2016 12:28 pm
Crowan
(@crowan)
Posts: 3429
Famed Member
 

I wonder why the Army does so badly and incompetently what any sensible mountain walker can achieve without too much trouble.

It seems reasonable to me that the MoD be held responsible.


 
Posted : 24/04/2016 9:13 pm
amy green
(@amy-green)
Posts: 2258
Famed Member
Topic starter
 

I wonder why the Army does so badly and incompetently what any sensible mountain walker can achieve without too much trouble.

It seems reasonable to me that the MoD be held responsible.

Yes I agree - although mountain walking would be a breeze in comparison with the gruelling military training.

I heard on the radio about this issue - something to the effect that it is necessary for the recruits to be put through these
intensive hurdles. I don't see anything noble in wanting to become a soldier. Being allowed to kill strangers is just legalised murder and 'military intelligence' is a contradiction in terms!


 
Posted : 24/04/2016 10:29 pm
Crowan
(@crowan)
Posts: 3429
Famed Member
 

Yes I agree - although mountain walking would be a breeze in comparison with the gruelling military training.

I was thinking of the guys in the Brecons when other walkers had the sense to drink and to rest when necessary. Of the soldiers suffering in the Falklands because they'd never heard of Gortex. And of the group of soldiers we encountered, lost and beginning to be hypothermic, when we were doing our Mountain Leadership course on Sca Fell one February - they were okay, they followed us down.

I heard on the radio about this issue - something to the effect that it is necessary for the recruits to be put through these
intensive hurdles. I don't see anything noble in wanting to become a soldier. Being allowed to kill strangers is just legalised murder and 'military intelligence' is a contradiction in terms!

Absolutely!


 
Posted : 25/04/2016 11:12 am
Crowan
(@crowan)
Posts: 3429
Famed Member
 

Yes I agree - although mountain walking would be a breeze in comparison with the gruelling military training.

I heard on the radio about this issue - something to the effect that it is necessary for the recruits to be put through these
intensive hurdles. I don't see anything noble in wanting to become a soldier. Being allowed to kill strangers is just legalised murder and 'military intelligence' is a contradiction in terms!

I was thinking of the guys in the Brecons when other walkers had the sense to drink and to rest when necessary. Of the soldiers suffering in the Falklands because they'd never heard of Gortex. And of the group of soldiers we encountered, lost and beginning to be hypothermic, when we were doing our Mountain Leadership course on Sca Fell one February - they were okay, they followed us down.


 
Posted : 25/04/2016 11:15 am
Crowan
(@crowan)
Posts: 3429
Famed Member
 

When did replying to a post get so complicated? And then, having decided to simply start again, I couldn't delete the now redundant post!


 
Posted : 25/04/2016 11:17 am
(@paul-crick_1611052763)
Posts: 4956
Famed Member
 

sorted. 🙂


 
Posted : 26/04/2016 7:31 am
Crowan
(@crowan)
Posts: 3429
Famed Member
 

Thanks, Paul.


 
Posted : 26/04/2016 5:21 pm
(@scommstech)
Posts: 527
Honorable Member
 

I think that people are being a little unfair on the military.
I personally am grateful for all those service men and women who stopped the likes of Hitler when they did. I don't condone killing but if it stops maniacs like him and his henchmen from committing genocide, murder, and such atrocities, then I am prepared to make an allowance.
Part of the groups that where involved in this task where what are now called "special forces". These where men and women who had to operate in extreme conditions where the average combatant would have given up. The modern day training programs are designed to find these people. They will be called upon if the need arises. Some service people will unfortunately go beyond their limits in an effort to be part of this special group. It is noteworthy that many servicemen and women see duty, comradeship, and not letting their "side down" as being paramount in their thoughts and endeavours. But it is true that mistakes do get made when people are pushing the "envelope". Hopefully lessons do get learned, by everyone involved, and consequently mistakes can be kept to a minimum...


 
Posted : 27/04/2016 2:17 am
Crowan
(@crowan)
Posts: 3429
Famed Member
 

The blame - if, indeed, there is any - is not at all for the ordinary soldiers. The original post was about people being held accountable for deaths that could be avoided. That's reasonable, surely?


 
Posted : 27/04/2016 5:53 pm
(@scommstech)
Posts: 527
Honorable Member
 

The blame - if, indeed, there is any - is not at all for the ordinary soldiers. The original post was about people being held accountable for deaths that could be avoided. That's reasonable, surely?

The problem is what is avoidable.. In a lot of cases your having to push people to their limit to find out their potential. In a lot of cases they don't know until they try, and then it may be too late. Some of these people have to operate under very hostile conditions, and training has to simulate those conditions as close as possible, it is regrettable that not all eventualities can be foreseen..


 
Posted : 27/04/2016 6:45 pm
amy green
(@amy-green)
Posts: 2258
Famed Member
Topic starter
 

The problem is what is avoidable.. In a lot of cases your having to push people to their limit to find out their potential. In a lot of cases they don't know until they try, and then it may be too late. Some of these people have to operate under very hostile conditions, and training has to simulate those conditions as close as possible, it is regrettable that not all eventualities can be foreseen..

Well it's not as if this is a new situation, i.e. surely the leaders have enough guidelines/experience of what to look for regarding warning signs?


 
Posted : 27/04/2016 7:05 pm
Crowan
(@crowan)
Posts: 3429
Famed Member
 

The problem is what is avoidable.. In a lot of cases your having to push people to their limit to find out their potential. In a lot of cases they don't know until they try, and then it may be too late. Some of these people have to operate under very hostile conditions, and training has to simulate those conditions as close as possible, it is regrettable that not all eventualities can be foreseen..

And what is avoidable would be for a court to decide.


 
Posted : 27/04/2016 8:26 pm
(@scommstech)
Posts: 527
Honorable Member
 

And what is avoidable would be for a court to decide.

There was the case of the marine that shot a wounded Taliban in Afghanistan.....He was convicted by a civilian court, but non of them took into account the marines mental state or the effects that stress can have on combatants.
It is very dangerous to have "arm chair" judges trying to understand the strain and pressures that the military encounter.
Military life is far different from civilian life.


 
Posted : 28/04/2016 1:09 am
amy green
(@amy-green)
Posts: 2258
Famed Member
Topic starter
 

There was the case of the marine that shot a wounded Taliban in Afghanistan.....He was convicted by a civilian court, but non of them took into account the marines mental state or the effects that stress can have on combatants.
It is very dangerous to have "arm chair" judges trying to understand the strain and pressures that the military encounter.
Military life is far different from civilian life.

That's a somewhat strained argument...like saying that whoever shoots schoolkids was under stress at the time... So there should be more leniency for the killing organisation? Hmmm


 
Posted : 28/04/2016 10:44 am
Page 1 / 2
Share: