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Boson Higgs
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Good morning gentle folk.
I wonder if any of you who are wise in the ways of chiropractic are familiar with this new battle between the British Chiropractic Association and the science writer Simon Singh? Hoo Hoo, what a kerfuffle it is!
Basically what Singh is challenging the BCA on, is their claims that they can treat via spinal manipulation, such childhood ailments as asthma, ear infections, Sleeping Problems and Prolonged Crying.
It very much looks like this Mr Singh chap is going to blow the BCA out of the water merely because they don't have any sound evidence to hand that what they say is true.
As reported that is. Also it doesn't help that that dotard of a judge isn't familiar with the latest developments in alternate medicine.

Any thoughts?

Best wishes to all.

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Davidmh
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(much cut....) It very much looks like this Mr Singh chap is going to blow the BCA out of the water merely because they don't have any sound evidence to hand that what they say is true.
As reported that is. Also it doesn't help that that dotard of a judge isn't familiar with the latest developments in alternate medicine.

Hi,

No need to shout - I think most of us can hear quite well:p

The Judge may not be up to speed with alt medicine, but the Expert Witnesses, who will no doubt be called on both sides, should be.

David:)

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myarka
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As reported that is.

Can you provide a link to the report?

Thanks,
Myarka.

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Boson Higgs
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Hi David. I'm sorry it took so long to get back.
The problem is, this is not a science issue. The way Singh and the science community see it, the BCA are unable to backup their claims so they resort to using the ridiculously liberal English libel laws to stifle scientific debate and free speech.

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Boson Higgs
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Hi Myarka.
“Can you provide a link to the report?”

The original Guardian article has been taken down while the case is ongoing, but here is the offending paragraph.

"You might think that modern chiropractors restrict themselves to treating back problems, but in fact they still possess some quite wacky ideas. The fundamentalists argue that they can cure anything. And even the more moderate chiropractors have ideas above their station. The British Chiropractic Association claims that their members can help treat children with colic, sleeping and feeding problems, frequent ear infections, asthma and prolonged crying, even though there is not a jot of evidence. This organization is the respectable face of the chiropractic profession and yet it happily promotes bogus treatments."

In an attempt to provide 'evidence' The BCA shot themselves in the foot by publishing this statement.

http://www.chiropractic-uk.co.uk/gfx/uploads/textbox/Singh/BCA%20Statement%20170609.pdf

In a matter of days respected members of the science community roundly condemned the content of that PDF as being rubbish.

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Reiki Pixie
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Sounds like Boson has an axe to grind. What's the matter BH, don't you like chiropractors, had a bad experience, tell us more?

RP

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Boson Higgs
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Sounds like Boson has an axe to grind. What's the matter BH, don't you like chiropractors, had a bad experience, tell us more?

RP


Hi Reiki Pixie.
Allow me clarify the issue if I can. Singh and the BCA had ample opportunity to settle out of court, Singh's original statement was very poorly worded, hence the 'unlearned science writers' quip in my opening post. If he chose a term other than 'Bogus' this whole situation could have been avoided.

The fact remains, the BCA are continuing to paint themselves into a corner. Rather than following good old trusted advice:
If you're in a hole, stop digging!”
I have been following this case from day one, but rather than go into lots of details I'll just post these few snippets from the Daily Mail of Thursday, July 02.


“And, in a clear sign that the industry is worried, it emerged this week that another professional body representing chiropractors - the McTimoney Chiropractic Association (MCA) - has emailed its members saying they must beware of calling themselves 'doctors' if they are not properly qualified.”


“The email adds: 'Remove all the MCA patient information leaflets, or any leaflets of your own, that state you treat whiplash, colic or other childhood problems at your clinic. DO NOT USE until further notice.'”




“Even so, the Mail has discovered that some chiropractors are still continuing to advertise treatments for children. For example, a quick search on Google reveals the website of a busy clinic in the South of England proclaiming: 'A spinal check-up could be one of the most important of your child's life. With a healthy spinal column, a child's body can better deal with sore throats, ear infections, stomachaches, fevers and the hundred-and one other problems that often make up young life.”


As for having an an “axe to grind”: yes I have indeed. I object most strongly to the law being used to stifle free speech. And as to a “ bad experience” as you put it: no I haven't. I do occasionally visit a chiropractor for back pain. For my asthma, I consult a doctor.





I hope my tone doesn't sound confrontational.

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Reiki Pixie
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Hi BH

Thanks for your reply, just wondered what the issue is. I'm not a chiropractor nor ever had a chiropractic treatment. But listening to my clients stories about chiro's they have seen, I get the impression (did I spell that right?) that there is some good chiro's out there but a lot just into the money. But before anyone wishes to sue me, this is an opinion based on other people's opinions. Another subjective observation I have made in my area that the chiro's with the best reputations seem to be practising light touch therapies rather than hardcore manpulation. I repeat again, a subjective observation.

Personally I'm very pragmatic when it comes to therapies and medicine in general. I'm interested in seeing the best aspects integrated. My own clinical experience suggests that asthma (for example) can be helped by massage and manual therapies. Reducing tightness in the chest and upper back there is an improvement in respiration. But of course if there is serious attack, then hospitalisation is right. I have met many asthma sufferers that have helped themselves with the use of breathing exercises and yoga. Life isn't black & white (including orthodox medicine and complementary healthcare) but various shades of grey.

Best Wishes

RP

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Boson Higgs
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Hi Reiki.
Sorry I took so long to get back. It's been a long weekend what with drinking, eating, not fixing broken things and out with me pals and err, drinking.
I do take your point regarding massage of the upper back area, If someone has, shall we say a degree of stiffness in the upper chest cavity or lets say a less than supple muscular system then absolutely; massage can/will help to a degree with breathing issues.
But as you say, only to a degree. If the patient is a long term chronic asthmatic; then only drugs specifically designed to target and control the condition will work in the long term.


I'm not sure what “light touch therapies rather than hardcore manipulation.” actually means. For massage to work effectively surely the masseur has to but his back into it 😀
As for the moral principles of "Some" chiropractors, well that's precisely Singhs point. I agree with him that most chiro's operate in a most fair an honest manner.
However, there are some in the chiro community who purport to have knowledge of the unseen, the unknown and the unprovable. I am of course talking about subluxations and the chiro's interpretation of what subluxations are. The basic idea of classical chiropractic is that "subluxations” are the cause of most medical problems. This is clearly nonsense and anyone who promotes such rubbish is either misguided, a charlatan or a fool.


Singh didn't go that far of course, but he may as well have according to how that silly old fool of a judge interpreted his statements.
We'll just have to wait and see how things pan out.

Best regards BH.




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