Miracles .

Hi Daz

What I mean Paul - Is to Imagine something that cannot be related to anything . We can dress up an elephant In many ways and add a few speedy stripes to the unicycle but we will always be creating something with having a connection to the attributes of what an elephant or a bike will mean to us .

That is the point, everything that you are describing is in relation to our physical consciousness, in the physical it is hard to grasp anything outside of the perceptions which are built upon what we encounter within our physicality, so everything is expressed through our perceptions.

If someone has not encountered something and has no reference point then they will attempt to create within their imagination, whatever you describe to them out of the information that you give to them, so if you were to describe spirits as being like human beings, then they will attempt to imagine spirits as human beings.

I am asking you to imagine consciousness unbound, without form, without separateness or anything which can be perceived that would separate one BEing from another BEing, which is how I perceive the oneness, you keep on telling me that you have spirits which are all different nationalities and look like you would expect a human being to look if they appeared in front of you, but they all speak the same language!

When we astral we can travel to other worlds and other dimensions . The denseness of our physical vibrations doesn’t allow the body to travel to the stars without a space craft .

We can also imagine ourselves as superman but that is not likely to become a reality.

In the spirit word Paul when spirit construct buildings, schools, libraries for example they use a source of energy with their mental contribution (normally as a collective) they can manifest a building by the means of visualizing what contains within there Imagination . There Is no wood and bricks and cement In the world of spirit . What one creates will manifest .

Within the physical realm what one creates - manifests but It won’t be In the way that some would like or hope for - as like when chris perhaps wantied a whole orange to manifest out of thin air . Giles had the right Idea In that someone could plant a seed and manifest an orange that way .

Our dense slow vibration that Is of the physical restricts our potential In many ways but It doesn’t stop us from realizing what we are .

Why would the oneness need buildings, who is going to live in them?
Why would the oneness want to build schools?
Who requires education and who is going to teach?
Within the oneness all is one, what one aspect knows all aspects know.

I can speak to you paul and perceive that you and I are a part of the One . I can embrace Individuality and embrace oneness whilst I am In experience of the physical . Conversing with the spirits or with angels, elements, or whatever doesn’t shout out to me that anything Is separate from one another .

The tree Is the oneness In the form of a tree . Many just don't see that the Oneness Is having a tree experience .

We can conceive and embrace the concept of oneness, but we are not one whilst we are human beings, we will only truly become one when we cast of the restrictions of the consciousness that we utilise to maintain separateness here and return to the oneness.

Well when I converse with other worlds I am not In an ordinary thinking mind and I am not giving healing to a chinese woman that doesn’t understand english . Heh ehhee - Certain alien races have used telepathy that Is understood by all that have communicated with them .

Where communication Is concerned with mind to mind, there are no language barriers . It doesn’t mean that my bishop guide does not retain the ability to speak In latin either for he has done so from time to time

I am sure that NASA will be happy for you to tell them what lies on the different planets, so that they are ready for what they will eventually encounter when they learn to travel through space quickly enough to reach planets and different galaxies etc.

I can imagine planets as well, but that does not make them real outside of my imagination. 😉

There Is no separation from that which Is oneness to that which Is spirit . The Individual form Is an illusion . The easter bunny, the tree, the girl next-door Is all oneness (There Is no thing that Is not One) . The illusion Is that the oneness Is anywhere or anything other than what Is present - whatever form or formless form that Is - Is Irrelevant .

I would like to see you give someone a hug and merge with them so that the two of you become one and shared the same time and space, if that is not possible, then you are two distinctly separate human beings, we might come from the oneness and we might return to it, but whist we are here the reality of separateness is complete.

You are of human form are you not Paul . As you know (Paul) Is not what you are and yet you say that you connect with the oneness and not with the spirit . The spirit that you do not connect with Is no different to the spirit body that you have that Is shadowing your own physical body right now .

I do not perceive a spirit body, that is the way that you choose to perceive things, which just goes to show you that we think independently of each other, which is something which does not happen within the oneness, if a BEing of pure consciousness thinks within the oneness, then the whole of the oneness thinks, all is one.

It Is therefore suggesting to me that you are not connecting / acknowledging with the oneness that Is of your Individual spirit form .

That might well be because I have not got a spirit form, why would I want to create a spirit form for myself, when I have a physical form which suits the requirements of this existence?

Having a spirit body Paul doesn’t stop you connecting and being aware of the oneness (that you are) does It paul??

It will if it creates the illusion of separateness within the oneness. 😉

That is the point, everything that you are describing is in relation to our physical consciousness, in the physical it is hard to grasp anything outside of the perceptions which are built upon what we encounter within our physicality, so everything is expressed through our perceptions.

Hi Paul .

I think somewhere down the line Paul what I am saying about Imagination and to what can be referenced somehow In mind like Imagining an elephant has got a little bit lost In my further attempts when asking If you could within mind Imagine a symbol that would be unique In design . Its gone a bit pear shaped ha ha adn I think I may revisit It and start again at some point (lol) .

We can also imagine ourselves as superman but that is not likely to become a reality .

I don’t seem to make the connection with what can be experienced whilst of the spirit form and what superman can or cannot do . Astraling the universe happens . I havent seen superman on my travels .

Why would the oneness need buildings, who is going to live in them?
Why would the oneness want to build schools?
Who requires education and who is going to teach?
Within the oneness all is one, what one aspect knows all aspects know.

Why would the oneness need an earth plane / physical reality ? I don’t follow your understandings Paul . What we are Is In experience of our own creation on many planes of existence and In many forms . The oneness Is everywhere . It’s Is everything . Perhaps the oneness you refer to Is what we are beyond mind, but as to like the artist and his painting we cannot separate them .

I think you are missing what Is experienced after physical death Paul . It seems by what you say - correct me If I am wrong Is that after physical death what we are returns for use of a better word with the oneness .

Now In respect to your question about why oneness would need a building or a school etc, In the world of spirit would be because those In spirit are In Individual experience of the One within the spirit world . Just as daz Is In the physical world . Whilst we retain a form In order to experience our own creation we have many ways to learn and evolve about ourselves In relation to our environment whether It be on earth on mars or the angelic realm .

I am asking you to imagine consciousness unbound, without form, without separateness or anything which can be perceived that would separate one BEing from another BEing, which is how I perceive the oneness, you keep on telling me that you have spirits which are all different nationalities and look like you would expect a human being to look if they appeared in front of you, but they all speak the same language!

My spirit contacts are not just human paul . I have no Idea that certain forms of conscious exist prior to them making their presence known . I have had this on going for twenty years . Many energies bring forth Information for months and months before giving a name . When I research the name then all of the key Information ties In with what has been documented In our earths history . It’s a way that spirit can build upon my faith In that what I receive Is correct . I am not Imagining It lol .

We can conceive and embrace the concept of oneness, but we are not one whilst we are human beings, we will only truly become one when we cast of the restrictions of the consciousness that we utilise to maintain separateness here and return to the oneness.

I disagree human form contains the matrix that allows us to realize what we are . The realization of what we are allows just oneness to be . Admittedly the realization had whilst In experience of human form Is not contained for a great period of time because what we are Is still In connection with the physical . (until we are not) lol .

I am sure that NASA will be happy for you to tell them what lies on the different planets, so that they are ready for what they will eventually encounter when they learn to travel through space quickly enough to reach planets and different galaxies etc.

Not really Interested In telling N.A.S.A paul I would say there are enough Individuals within the government bodies that know whats out there all ready . It’s also one thing to sit on a chair and Imagining a planet and It Is another thing when you are actually consciously aware that you are on another planet .

I would like to see you give someone a hug and merge with them so that the two of you become one and shared the same time and space, if that is not possible, then you are two distinctly separate human beings, we might come from the oneness and we might return to it, but whist we are here the reality of separateness is complete.

What we are Is not a human being Paul . What we are Is having a physical experience . A physical human form cannot as you rightly suggest occupy the same space as another human form, but that doesn’t separate what we are whilst experiencing various forms .

I do not perceive a spirit body, that is the way that you choose to perceive things, which just goes to show you that we think independently of each other, which is something which does not happen within the oneness, if a BEing of pure consciousness thinks within the oneness, then the whole of the oneness thinks, all is one.

Just because you do not perceive that you have a spirit body Paul doesn’t mean that you do not have one . Many may not have a clear perception of what they are but what they are Is still present .

It will if it creates the illusion of separateness within the oneness

.

Only If you let It . :p

x dazzle x

Hi Daz

Why would the oneness need an earth plane / physical reality ? I don’t follow your understandings Paul .

Within pure consciousness there is no separateness, only oneness, everything is already known within the oneness because there is no time, nothing changes, we would not need to build a light/spiritual body so that we could astral travel within our imagination to other places and planets, because we would always be everywhere at once and know what was happening on all of the planets simultaneously as there is no distance, there is no need for teachers and pupils, because every BEing within the oneness collectively knows what every BEing knows, there is no separation, only the oneness of consciousness.

This physical existence is simply an experience to be experienced, we can spend our time here experiencing life to the full as it unfolds for us, or we can choose to divert our consciousness into other things and the life experience will pass us by, the choices are as always up to the individual.

Now you can imagine whatever you like and within your imagination and it will if you choose appear to be real to you, but as human beings we have to function within the limitations that are placed upon the form of consciousness that human beings have to work with, we are stuck within this physical realm until we physically die and cease to exist within it, then we can return to the oneness.

If you could express that aspect of self here on this planet that remains separated by consciousness within the oneness like you are saying that you can, then you would not have a problem creating an orange by holding out your hand thinking about it, for as soon as you thought about it, an orange would appear in your hand, if you thought about being on another planet, then you would be there, you would die and cease to exist in this physical realm, but you would be there.

“I didnt say there was no free will” – I think the point is that if we are a part of god, cleaved off and living under the constant guidance of god then we cannot claim to have free will, only the illusion of free will exists. Only if we are separate from god can we claim to actually have free will divorced from the will of god.

Hi Ya Chris .

You seem to combine being a part of God and being guided by a God that Is separate from what we are also . Let me also say as an example my Indian guide brings forth guidance from his own Individual experiences of life that Include his time as a medicine man . He is not separate from ‘I’ In one respect he Is ‘I’ - ‘I’ am also him . Time, space, dimensions, form, or whatever does not separate what we are from anyone or anything .

If we are part of god then no matter what actions we take we can never remove and binds, they are not of our own making, but made by god. If we are separate from god then it is entirely possible that we impose upon ourselves binds that are of our own making.

Ah Chris . We are One (God) . But when an Individual believes they are separate from the One they are “In mind” operating In and creating experience had Is of a separated mind-set that allows one to kill another for example . So do you see that there Is free will because of what the mind can allow one to perceive . When an Individual realizes the One then the ‘I’ dissolves along with the Identity that there Is “someone” to have free will . One must work through the self imposed binds whilst experiencing what they are within a mindful separated state .

“What you are Is an Individual that Is not separate from the One .You have the ability to think differently to “I’ because you retain uniqueness In respect to your Individual experience had” – experiences differ from person to person, but if we are just part of the ‘one’ then those experiences have been directed in order to make each of us different, we have had no choice about this – the idea then that we are individuals is an illusion, we are simply aspects of the ‘one’. Our existence is directed and we simply think we have a choice.

Individual experiences had have not been directed In order for us to feel different . It could just be as easily said that experiences have been directed In order for us to feel the same . Do you see that . Individuality In my eyes Is the oneness In expression that allows what we are to Interact with what we are . One can perceive Individuality as a separation tool as like duality but one can also perceive that duality / Individuality In a way that allows us to recognize the one . If there was no - you - Chris I would never be able to see that you are me (lol) .

“There are no delusions, confusions, deceptions within the Oneness” – and this may well be the impression one gets, but if one is simply part of the ‘one’ and has no free will then the idea that there are no “delusions, confusions, deceptions within the Oneness” may well be planted and enforced by the one. The only way one can say that there are no delusions etc., is if we can stand aside from the one and view it impartially, and that means we have to be separate from the one.

The point Is chris - Is that there Is no-one present to get the Impression . Only back In mind can an Individual evaluate the realization . In the realization there Is only being . No thinking, No evaluating If this realization Is real or Is this what I am etc . . You only know that It Is true when there Is someone to know that Is back within mind .

“There are reasons why we are all at different stages of the journey” – we each tread a different path, and we each make ground at different speeds – either these are governed by god or we have got to where we are by a series of choices we have made, our own choices, not those of a puppet master. There is no sense in sending a ‘message’ to remind us how we should be living if we have no choice whether we follow it or not, the very existence of Jesus immediately tells us that we are separate from god and must find our own way, the fact that we have a choice as to whether we will listen or not (albeit that may be because we may not be ‘ripe enough’) says that we are not being directed and managed.

The energy that sends forth messages and reminders are the same energy that receives and acknowledges them . It’s like sending a text to your self he he . Within mind an Individual can become lost - what we are knows this In a sense so within mind there are pointers that can perhaps show us the way . Jesus was a pointer . Everything Is a pointer In a way because we can learn a little of ourselves and see a little of ourselves In everything else . many can see this many cannot .

The observer The observed . The perceiver The perceived . The Giver The reciever are all the same .

You use the word individual, and this alone suggests duality, for an individual is an anathema within a space where all is one, if anything it is a temporary expression of some kind of localised activity, but it cannot survive and must be subsumed. The definition of individual is that it should exist as a single entity, and that requires separateness.
“how many are ready” you asked, and this is an interesting question, but part of the answer is that there are at least some, and there is a stream of people all the time, and of course this is not limited to those who ‘follow Jesus’, for the message is there for all to know, it existed before Jesus, and in every culture, it is a way of life.

Individuality suggests duality for those that perceive It to be so . Many can perceive Individuality as I have mention previously as a way of perceiving oneness .

“Many … have seemingly severed their own connection with what they are” – this is not possible if there is a puppet and a puppet master, even, or especially if they are the same. A part of god cannot decide the sever the connection to god, for by definition they both exist within the oneness, the oneness is the connection. Many today, and they have throughout history do choose to sever their connection to god, they are led away by the physical trappings of this worldly existence, or they believe they do not need the connection – this is their choice, they decide with their own free will.

I have said seemingly severed Chris . Thats why I have also mentioned In previous threads about the search . Many are searching for what Isn’t lost . It’s more about finding what Isn’t lost rather than what Is . Many are seemingly lost within mind are they not . . I was .

x daz x

Within pure consciousness there is no separateness, only oneness, everything is already known within the oneness because there is no time, nothing changes, we would not need to build a light/spiritual body so that we could astral travel within our imagination to other places and planets, because we would always be everywhere at once and know what was happening on all of the planets simultaneously as there is no distance, there is no need for teachers and pupils, because every BEing within the oneness collectively knows what every BEing knows, there is no separation, only the oneness of consciousness.

Hi Paul .

Where Is this 'pure' consciousness paul and where Is unpure consciousness . The physical and the spirit bodies are just forms that allow consciousness to be . Only within mind-sets does one start to apply perceptions of being separate from what they are whilst experiencing form .

You say everything In the oneness Is already known . Who ‘Is” “there” to know anything within the Oneness .

This physical existence is simply an experience to be experienced, we can spend our time here experiencing life to the full as it unfolds for us, or we can choose to divert our consciousness into other things and the life experience will pass us by, the choices are as always up to the individual.

And these experiences that you mention can contain spirit form also and that can contain whilst having these kind of experiences the ability to transcend the ordinary mind and experience universal consciousness / other realms and dimensions without Imagining It .

Now you can imagine whatever you like and within your imagination and it will if you choose appear to be real to you, but as human beings we have to function within the limitations that are placed upon the form of consciousness that human beings have to work with, we are stuck within this physical realm until we physically die and cease to exist within it, then we can return to the oneness.

I agree we can Imagine what we want to Imagine - but that doesn’t apply to direct experience being had - unless you think that I am Imagining that I am typing a response to you now . If that Is so then we are heading Into the direction of what Is real again lol .

Are you Imagining your own existence paul right now ?

In respect to your understandings of when you physically pass over and then return to the oneness this In not true .. I think that whatever I say on this matter will go In one ear and out the other (lol) . I think perhaps I will leave It be and let you experience that for yourself when the time comes . he he

If you could express that aspect of self here on this planet that remains separated by consciousness within the oneness like you are saying that you can, then you would not have a problem creating an orange by holding out your hand thinking about it, for as soon as you thought about it, an orange would appear in your hand, if you thought about being on another planet, then you would be there, you would die and cease to exist in this physical realm, but you would be there.

If you could express that aspect of self here on this planet that remains separated by consciousness within the oneness like you are saying that you can, then you would not have a problem creating an orange by holding out your hand thinking about it, for as soon as you thought about it, an orange would appear in your hand, if you thought about being on another planet, then you would be there, you would die and cease to exist in this physical realm, but you would be there.

I don’t see separation Paul that Is the point I am making . Form, dimensions, mind, beyond mind, Time, space, duality, Individuality doesn’t separate what we are from what we are .

What I have said Is the denseness of the earth plane being a 3d environment allows creating and manifesting to occur In ways that are different from the spirit world .

The spirit world permits the construction of buildings that are made of thought and light . The spirit worlds vibration Is higher / quicker In vibration to allow that to be so .

I have also touched upon physical mediumship and the ability to dematerialize an object from a particular time and space and materialize It In another time and space - An orange could be materialized in this way .. This could be seen as a miracle to some and It’s part of my development work that I am currently undertaking but this Isn’t the same as manifesting an orange out of thin air . You seem to think that It’s possible .

Your understandings of ‘thinking’ to be on a planet and being there Is correct . Spirit can travel from one place to another by thinking of where they would like to be . It Is similar for the spirit that still has a connection to a physical body but needs much practice to do so at will . Many remote viewers do so In a similar way .

Your understanding of the physical aspect dying whilst the spirit Is on another planet Is Incorrect . There Is a connection still retained of the spirit with the physical just as there Is when one Is seemingly sleeping or when one Is In the realization of what they are or In a coma etc . . .

x dazzle x

Hi Dazzle,
The view into spirits and their existence raises a lot of questions that some will find hard to answer. Take for instance the idea that ‘within the oneness’ there is no time, now that does seem to be the feeling that one gets, that this ‘joining of ‘consciousness to the global consciousness’ does of connecting to god, does give the impression of timelessness. The other overwhelming impression is that this is everything, there is nothing else but this. These are both illusions created within that space and as part of the connection. This does not mean that they are wrong, or misread, just as we live with illusions every day the impressions are valid.
In terms of the way in which we see spirit this is what I think I have understood...in order for ‘us’ to understand and be able to decipher who the spirit is, and what it is communicating, they alter the outward appearance to something with which we are familiar – if it was pure spirit to spirit connection then the native form of the energy of the being is what is used.
This issue of the oneness is a problem by its very definition in some ways, for it seems that spirit is validatable, it seems therefore that ‘one consciousness’ has spirit within it, and this alone creates duality, it also seems that time exists within the spirit world, for they follow what some do on earth – and this too creates a conundrum for the timeless oneness. This is also aligned with the fact that some spirit beings take on time based work such as guides. This is all a problem for the oneness – and that is why I keep seeing it as only part of the whole, and to some extent as a illusiory part as well, it beguiles with its ‘niceness’, peace and connectedness, but it is not all there is.
“Just because you do not perceive that you have a spirit body Paul doesn’t mean that you do not have one” – this is correct – we are often blind to things and so assume that we see everything there is to see.

love
chris

I am not saying that there are no spiritual realms outside of this physical reality and the oneness, just as I perceive that this physical reality which we are currently existing in, is one of many realities outside of the oneness, but what I do understand is that each reality creates a different experience and each type of experience can only be fully experienced from within that reality.

But as this is a physical realm that we are experiencing and not a spiritual or another reality, then I am very happy to keep my feet firmly planted upon this planet and focus upon exploring this planet and experiencing what experiences unfold upon this planet as they unfold.

Yes I could spend all of my time imagining what it would be like to be a spirit living in a spiritual reality as opposed to a physical reality and life would simply carry on regardless and pass me by, much the same as creating a past attachment or creating a fear or longing for the future within our consciousness does.

My conceptual understanding of the oneness and the now, does not distract me from experiencing life as a human being, it is quite the reverse, it helps to keep me centred and focused within this reality and gives me the understanding of what I am both here which is important for me to understand right now and back within the oneness which remains constant so requires no thought, I can perceive other realities but they are of no moment to this reality, the only thing that affects this reality is what is being created and unfolding in the here and now.

Yes, I do perceive that we have what you term a spirit, but I choose to call it our matrix of consciousness as that is its function, it contains our aspects of consciousness that we utilise within this existence. I do not perceive that we can detach it from our physicality for protracted periods of time and remain alive as a human being within this physical existence, as it is vital to our continued existence here, I do perceive that it is formed at conception and dissipates when we die and leave this physical realm.

The spirit world permits the construction of buildings that are made of thought and light . The spirit worlds vibration Is higher / quicker In vibration to allow that to be so .

This depends where you are talking about in the spirit worlds. Are you meaning the place/state of being of 'humans' while they are dead/not incarnate? If so, what about all the other types of spirits?

And, Paul, you say,
But as this is a physical realm that we are experiencing and not a spiritual or another reality, then I am very happy to keep my feet firmly planted upon this planet and focus upon exploring this planet and experiencing what experiences unfold upon this planet as they unfold.
and
the only thing that affects this reality is what is being created and unfolding in the here and now.

This is pretty much the opposite of what shamanism shows us (I can't speak for any other belief system). I agree that we are here, in this physical realm, and so this is where we need to operate. But if the spirit worlds couldn't affect this reality, what would be the point of contacting them? If you are both meaning what I would call 'the Land of the Dead', then yes, there isn't a lot of point in the contact - but that isn't the whole of the spirit worlds.

Hi Crowan

But if the spirit worlds couldn't affect this reality, what would be the point of contacting them?

My thoughts exactly, we have an abundance of inbuilt guidance which can be perceived in many ways and the ability to create and alter our own physical existences within the fullness of self. 🙂

This depends where you are talking about in the spirit worlds. Are you meaning the place/state of being of 'humans' while they are dead/not incarnate? If so, what about all the other types of spirits?
.

Hi Crowan , Thanks for your thoughts . .

In previous posts made on this thread I have been speaking of the spirit world that related to humans when they shed their physical skins .

You will have to be more specific In relation to what other spirits / spirit worlds you are referring too .

But if the spirit worlds couldn't affect this reality, what would be the point of contacting them?.

Ah Crowan ,, but they can and they do .

Even the animal spirits connecting with your shamanism has an Indirect effect upon the earth plane by having an Influence through our physical aspect .

I have many totem animal spirits that work along side me as do many others (If not all) .

x dazzle x

Even the animal spirits connecting with your shamanism has an Indirect effect upon the earth plane by having an Influence through our physical aspect .

Don't make the mistake of thinking that, in shamanism, we work only with animal spirits. We work with any spirits that work with us. The other spirit worlds, therefore, are any that - with the help of the spirits - we can reach from here. And the spirits can have very direct effects - causing or helping to cure illness, for example, or helping us to retrieve lost soul parts (to mention two of the most common).

By "the spirit world that related to humans when they shed their physical skins " I think you mean what I referred to as 'The Land of the Dead'. (It's not the only place you'll find such spirits, since many 'humans' never make it there.) In which case I have to disagree with your previous post, where you write:

"The spirit world permits the construction of buildings that are made of thought and light . The spirit worlds vibration Is higher / quicker In vibration to allow that to be so ."

That sounds more like the unformed area between here and the Land of the Dead, where many souls get lost/stuck, which we tend to refer to as 'the Fog' or the Grey Place'. The Land of the Dead itself is only slightly less material than this one.

The view into spirits and their existence raises a lot of questions that some will find hard to answer. Take for instance the idea that ‘within the oneness’ there is no time, now that does seem to be the feeling that one gets, that this ‘joining of ‘consciousness to the global consciousness’ does of connecting to god, does give the impression of timelessness. The other overwhelming impression is that this is everything, there is nothing else but this. These are both illusions created within that space and as part of the connection. This does not mean that they are wrong, or misread, just as we live with illusions every day the impressions are valid.

Hi Chris

Ah but chris there Is no-one In the oneness to have an Idea that there Is no time . Only In mind when there Is someone / something In awareness can evaluations then be made . If there Is no-one experiencing the oneness why would time exist and not the (person) exist - who’s there to keep the time .

In terms of the way in which we see spirit this is what I think I have understood...in order for ‘us’ to understand and be able to decipher who the spirit is, and what it is communicating, they alter the outward appearance to something with which we are familiar – if it was pure spirit to spirit connection then the native form of the energy of the being is what is used.

Absolutely . In regards to spirits appearing In a way that can be recognized by those that they are communicating with although many that I have seen I do not recognise at all for they are not connected / related or guides

When you mention ‘if it was pure spirit to spirit connection then the native form of the energy of the being is what is used’. How do you mean? What Is a spirits native form .

This issue of the oneness is a problem by its very definition in some ways, for it seems that spirit is validatable, it seems therefore that ‘one consciousness’ has spirit within it, and this alone creates duality, it also seems that time exists within the spirit world, for they follow what some do on earth – and this too creates a conundrum for the timeless oneness. This is also aligned with the fact that some spirit beings take on time based work such as guides.

Oneness Is very difficult to understand / comprehend I agree unless ‘what we are’ has merged back Into the ocean . One conscious spirit In the way that you have mentioned can create dual experiences for sure but we do eventually see through Individuality and form and such likes .

This is all a problem for the oneness – and that is why I keep seeing it as only part of the whole, and to some extent as a illusory part as well, it beguiles with its ‘niceness’, peace and connectedness, but it is not all there is.

It Is very difficult to experience Individual form and embrace oneness . That’s why the ‘I’ aspect dissolves Into the oneness when the oneness calls . It’s not meant to be easy perceiving the world for what It Is . Individuality allows millions of different perceptions to be In expression of but It doesn’t change how anything “really’ Is . Every step of the way as an Individual becomes aware of the self - that Individuals perception changes . ‘what Is doesn’t change’ .

x daz x

Don't make the mistake of thinking that, in shamanism, we work only with animal spirits. We work with any spirits that work with us.

Hi Crowan

I wasn’t under the Impression that In shamanism - shamans only work with animal spirits - what gave you that Idea . I understand there are many strings to a shamans bow . I mentioned the animal spirits as one example as I knew you could relate to It .

The other spirit worlds, therefore, are any that - with the help of the spirits - we can reach from here. And the spirits can have very direct effects - causing or helping to cure illness, for example, or helping us to retrieve lost soul parts (to mention two of the most common).

I understand and agree In respect to the soul rescue and the healing aspects where spirits can have a direct and Indirect effect upon energies of the earth plane .

Your past comment ‘But if the spirit worlds couldn't affect this reality, what would be the point of contacting them?

Well you have given two examples for yourself as to why spirits can contact and have an effect on those that are of the physical .

By "the spirit world that related to humans when they shed their physical skins " I think you mean what I referred to as 'The Land of the Dead'. (It's not the only place you'll find such spirits, since many 'humans' never make it there.) In which case I have to disagree with your previous post, where you write:

"The spirit world permits the construction of buildings that are made of thought and light . The spirit worlds vibration Is higher / quicker In vibration to allow that to be so .

It does seem that your reference to the land of the dead Is what I refer to as the spirit world . I agree that many spirits do not crossover to this spirit world and remain In or of the astral planes that are close to the physical planes . These astral planes where the spirits are In-between worlds Is not what I was referring to when I was speaking of libraries and such likes being created by light / thoughts .

That sounds more like the unformed area between here and the Land of the Dead, where many souls get lost/stuck, which we tend to refer to as 'the Fog' or the Grey Place'. The Land of the Dead itself is only slightly less material than this one.

Yes similar If not the same as to the astral planes as I have mentioned above .

x daz x

Hi Dazzle,
It is no use ever simply trying to live in one ‘realm’ as we are beings that span the realms, how can one separate the physical form the spirit when they co-exist. This kind of ‘deal with only one aspect’ or ‘pure focus’ will never work, it provides only one window to perceive the world, when what we have is a 360 degree panorama (lol) without having to be ‘within’ anything. So anyone that only deals with a single aspect may well get the impression that they ‘know everything’, that their experience is ‘everything’, but they are just falling under the illusion that a single window gives, they become deliberately self-limiting in order to feel unlimited. If we focus only on one aspect, only on immediate needs, then all we can fulfil is assisting with one aspect, and this will only lead to inadequate fulfilment by definition. There is a sense of advancement, but it is misleading, for if one takes a step and the rest of the body does not follow no progress is made. So assuming that we only exist within a physical realm simply constricts and constrains (not that you assume that lol), and assuming that we are in some way erased when we die has no basis of validity at all given the evidence.

This ‘everything is known’ also has some problems, for if during ones moment of peering out of the single window ‘everything is known, then how can it just be unknown later when the physical returns. It is an illusion, if everything is known, then how to retain the knowledge about everything is known, so we should be able to retain knowledge about everything, yet those who claim this obviously do not know everything – how can this be? If however the ‘everything is known’ is an illusion, a trick of the ‘mind’ or the ‘consciousness’ – then only what was known before would be retained, and this seems to be the case – can something that promises everything but delivers nothing extra be trusted? The sense that everything is known, that there is no time, that all is one, is real, it is truley felt and believed, of that I have no doubt – but if it is a lie, then the believer simply becomes an unwitting victim of a huge deception – and yet of course if everything is known then there can be no deception, for one cannot deceive someone if they know everything – so it is a problem.
This is not trivial – for those that believe it, those that espouse it, have their very credibility at stake – if they know everything they should be able to test it, yet none will, they will simply claim more loudly that everything is known and that there is no need to test it, for everything is Known, and knowledge is truth, so how can it be wrong.

The argument that time cannot exist unless there is someone there to experience it is a bit too circular or perhaps self pointing. Time may not be experienced, or even perhaps measured if there is no one there, as these are activities that are partaken by beings, but that is not to say that it does not exist – this is I think a somewhat self-inflating illusion giving us more importance than we actually have – “who’s there to keep the time” – the time does not need keeping, it is just that we decide to count it. The universe existed before man emerged, before consciousness was at a level to observe, it is a fallacy that we create it, we are lucky to be able to be part of it, never mind create it.

“What Is a spirits native form” – well we do not look like our earthly existence when we die, or before we entered this world – why would we, outward human form is not a requirement for the spirit world, we are essentially make up of energy that allows differentiation and recognition within the spiritual world. Try contacting a spirit and then ask to see them in their ‘native form’, stripped of all the outward disguise, as they truly are, or if you are really bold ask god. When a spirit sees a spirit they do not see a human – what they do see is magnificent, enquire and see what you find.

“unless ‘what we are’ has merged back Into the ocean” – and if one does, how without remaining separate can one ever re-emerge, so any ‘merging into the ocean’ is either illusory (and is really contact with god) or becomes effectively the death of our being as an entity – and this seems unlikely for we seem to survive it.
When this connection happens, how can it be that one connects to it all, that the entire ‘everything’ is one consciousness, and that must include us, and yet we can connect, this is another one of those sweeping statements, said with authority that I’m sure are spoken as if they are true, and are believed to be true (well – lots of the time anyway), but fail the test of reason, for if one is connected to everything, then how can one retain any individuality, and if one does not, then how could it be reformed for ones return? The illusion creates this, a sense of belief without the need to test and reason, that is the nature of illusions – we believe them and yet by their very nature they are deceitful.

Hi Crowan,
I loved your description of the Fog or the Grey space, this is where I see those I refer to as lost souls existing, they can be helped to move on easily if they are ready and willing, and again your Land of the Dead is very descriptive (though I think it is a bit more complicated than that as some there seem never to have ‘lived’.)

love
chris

Hi Chris

There are more realms than the physical and spiritual and each realm has many expressions of itself, but each being that is experiencing different experiences within the many aspects of the realms, are all aspects of the oneness of consciousness.

This ‘everything is known’ also has some problems, for if during ones moment of peering out of the single window ‘everything is known, then how can it just be unknown later when the physical returns. It is an illusion, if everything is known, then how to retain the knowledge about everything is known, so we should be able to retain knowledge about everything, yet those who claim this obviously do not know everything – how can this be? If however the ‘everything is known’ is an illusion, a trick of the ‘mind’ or the ‘consciousness’ – then only what was known before would be retained, and this seems to be the case – can something that promises everything but delivers nothing extra be trusted? The sense that everything is known, that there is no time, that all is one, is real, it is truly felt and believed, of that I have no doubt – but if it is a lie, then the believer simply becomes an unwitting victim of a huge deception – and yet of course if everything is known then there can be no deception, for one cannot deceive someone if they know everything – so it is a problem.

You state that you are aware of past lives, that you use your understanding of past lives to help people to heal themselves of what they have brought forward, is that not an inconsistency to what you have just put, for if you remember past lives and experiences then why did you have to learn how to speak and read and write etc, you should have already know all this when you were born?

We do not find the oneness outside of us, we find it within the fullness of self once we mange to overcome the fear of loosing self.

Within the oneness, everything is known, but when we create an aspect of self and enmesh it within a form within one of the realities to experience that reality, the aspects of consciousness that we create out of self does not know anything and is created to make the experience of that reality real, so everything has to be learnt in order to survive within the that reality without preempting or unduly influencing the experience.

The argument that time cannot exist unless there is someone there to experience it is a bit too circular or perhaps self pointing.

No, time exists within this reality and if this planet was uninhabited, then the planet itself would be aware of the passage of the seasons and time, although the time perceived upon this planet is different to time on any other planet within this physical reality.

“unless ‘what we are’ has merged back Into the ocean” – and if one does, how without remaining separate can one ever re-emerge, so any ‘merging into the ocean’ is either illusory (and is really contact with god) or becomes effectively the death of our being as an entity – and this seems unlikely for we seem to survive it.

We do not need to reconnect to the oneness, because we never left it.

No we do not survive as a being when we leave this plane of reality, we create a new being suitable to our requirements with each expression.

It is no use ever simply trying to live in one ‘realm’ as we are beings that span the realms, how can one separate the physical form the spirit when they co-exist. This kind of ‘deal with only one aspect’ or ‘pure focus’ will never work, it provides only one window to perceive the world, when what we have is a 360 degree panorama (lol) without having to be ‘within’ anything. So anyone that only deals with a single aspect may well get the impression that they ‘know everything’, that their experience is ‘everything’, but they are just falling under the illusion that a single window gives, they become deliberately self-limiting in order to feel unlimited. If we focus only on one aspect, only on immediate needs, then all we can fulfil is assisting with one aspect, and this will only lead to inadequate fulfilment by definition. There is a sense of advancement, but it is misleading, for if one takes a step and the rest of the body does not follow no progress is made. So assuming that we only exist within a physical realm simply constricts and constrains (not that you assume that lol), and assuming that we are in some way erased when we die has no basis of validity at all given the evidence.

Hi Ya .

A baby bird (chick) does not venture out from the nest until one feels ready to . When the fledgling Is ready too It will fly the nest . The same goes for those that have had multidimensional experience . Sometimes ones current environment Is all that one can handle or all that one needs to experience . A bird that has flown the nest already won’t feel contented hanging around perceiving life from a nests perspective .

This ‘everything is known’ also has some problems, for if during ones moment of peering out of the single window ‘everything is known, then how can it just be unknown later when the physical returns. It is an illusion, if everything is known, then how to retain the knowledge about everything is known, so we should be able to retain knowledge about everything, yet those who claim this obviously do not know everything – how can this be? If however the ‘everything is known’ is an illusion, a trick of the ‘mind’ or the ‘consciousness’ – then only what was known before would be retained, and this seems to be the case – can something that promises everything but delivers nothing extra be trusted? The sense that everything is known, that there is no time, that all is one, is real, it is truly felt and believed, of that I have no doubt – but if it is a lie, then the believer simply becomes an unwitting victim of a huge deception – and yet of course if everything is known then there can be no deception, for one cannot deceive someone if they know everything – so it is a problem.
This is not trivial – for those that believe it, those that espouse it, have their very credibility at stake – if they know everything they should be able to test it, yet none will, they will simply claim more loudly that everything is known and that there is no need to test it, for everything is Known, and knowledge is truth, so how can it be wrong.

There’s perhaps many ways to look at this .

If what we are Is all there Is then on some level all there Is - knows all there Is .

For many what we are In Individual form feels disconnected from what we are so therefore within that mind-set one Is not conscious of what one (really) knows . Of course any kind of knowings are fed and digested through the Intellectual aspect of the mind even If the knowings are channeled via an energy source that Is beyond the Intellect that perhaps translates truth In a way via words spoken by the channel . As we know (excuse the pun) that certain realizations are beyond comprehension so trying to know what Is Incomprehensible has to go through a mind converter (lol) In order to make sense .

Some speak of a level of being where there Is a unknowing - within the realization of what you are there is no-one to know anything . As mentioned previously - It’s only back In mind does 'anyone know anything' .

“who’s there to keep the time” – the time does not need keeping .

Everything has a purpose or a reason for ‘being In existence’ In my opinion . What purpose does time have In a realization of what you are .

“What Is a spirits native form” – well we do not look like our earthly existence when we die, or before we entered this world – why would we, outward human form is not a requirement for the spirit world, we are essentially make up of energy that allows differentiation and recognition within the spiritual world. Try contacting a spirit and then ask to see them in their ‘native form’, stripped of all the outward disguise, as they truly are, or if you are really bold ask god. When a spirit sees a spirit they do not see a human – what they do see is magnificent, enquire and see what you find.

How I see It Chris Is that we are on a evolutionary journey . For those that are In human experience at present they have also experienced mineral, plant, animal, It Is then possible to be In experience of a galactic human (alien) and light being as In a way of natural progression but one human life experience doesn’t allow one to then experience a light body . (lol) .

When an Individual sheds their animal skin for example they retain the Impression of an animal within their matrix of consciousness prior to experiencing / Incarnating Into human form . A human spirit that has not yet experienced a pure light body cannot be In expression or of a form / formless - form of a light body . Our evolutionary vibrational rate dictates what form of consciousness one can take . We cannot dissolve the spirit body unless what we are has held a higher frequency prior to or whilst taking human form .

The same applies when one transcends realms and dimensions . A spirit that Is of the spirit word (4d) cannot vibrate In 5d unless one has already attained that vibration . Spirit beings can always come down a vibration but cannot rise above where they are at within If that makes sense . It doesn’t mean that all that are In experience of human form are just holding a vibration that allows them to experience physicality .

“unless ‘what we are’ has merged back Into the ocean” – and if one does, how without remaining separate can one ever re-emerge, so any ‘merging into the ocean’ is either illusory (and is really contact with god) or becomes effectively the death of our being as an entity – and this seems unlikely for we seem to survive it.
When this connection happens, how can it be that one connects to it all, that the entire ‘everything’ is one consciousness, and that must include us, and yet we can connect, this is another one of those sweeping statements, said with authority that I’m sure are spoken as if they are true, and are believed to be true (well – lots of the time anyway), but fail the test of reason, for if one is connected to everything, then how can one retain any individuality, and if one does not, then how could it be reformed for ones return? The illusion creates this, a sense of belief without the need to test and reason, that is the nature of illusions – we believe them and yet by their very nature they are deceitful.

A common phrase Is that you have to die whilst living In order to live . When you realize what you are or merge back Into oneness you are dead to the world . There Is then awareness of what Is real . You are the life . That’s what Is meant by dying whilst living . . It can be referred to as being awake form the dream or whatever . It has no connection with the cycle of physical birth and death .

When this connection happens, how can it be that one connects to it all, that the entire ‘everything’ is one consciousness, and that must include us, and yet we can connect, this is another one of those sweeping statements,

The illusion Is that 'what we are' In Individual form Is anything but the oneness to begin with .

It’s not as If we are something that eventually becomes everything . We are everything that has (within mind) become something .

What happens Is when that something finally dissolves - everything and nothing Is all there Is and has always been .

x dazzle x

For those who haven't watched it I would recommend What the Bleep - Down the Rabbit Hole...

[url]What The Bleep? Down the Rabbit Hole - 5 Disc Box Set DVD: Amazon.co.uk: Film & TV[/url]

Quantum physicists and others... "exploring the links between quantum mechanics, neurobiology, human consciousness and day-to-day reality. " with details of scientific experiments conducted that show how we are all One and not seperate from each other, and how and why one can or cannot create things.

It's 5 discs, but you can get enough by just watching the first two discs (only about 5 hours).

Good to have some scientific backing to what has been discussed on this and other philosophy threads recently.

😉

All Love and Reiki Hugs

also here

[url]What The Bleep Do We Know: Down The Rabbit Hole ( Full Length Movie ) - YouTube[/url]

from wikipedia of course the scientists had a view:

The film has been criticized for both misrepresenting <a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="science">science and containing <a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="pseudoscience">pseudoscience and has been described as [url]quantum mysticism[/url].

but it is good watching.

chris

Hi Chris,

as a copyrighted film I would have thought it's breaching copyright to have it on Youtube. :confused: (I can't check out youtube from work, but if it isn't looking official then we should perhaps remove that link)

As for the critics... well everything has critics, and they're usually the ones who don't understand or aren't willing to even listen. Some of the people on the film are established quantum physicists and people doing experiments to scientific standards.

Of course one mention of science meeting spirituality and the "skeptics" all jump on to claim it's psuedoscience, just many proclaimed Salman Rushdie's book to be heresy without even having read it. Sad that some people judge based on others beliefs without even investigating for themselves. Wikipedia is renowned for being a place for the skeptics to hang out and try and critisize anything that doesn't fit their own belief system, you only have to look at the argument on the "Reiki" entry. I don't see many of them showing it's false scientifically though. :rolleyes:

There again, I imagine many skeptics struggle to understand the basic concepts of quantum physics. LOL!

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Hi giles,
It has been there for a few years so I think it must be ok, it is a very interesting watch and raises some good points - of course (as I said) the scientists have had thier say, but what the bleep hey.....

If the mods want to remove it I'm ok with that - anyone can search for it on youtube - the link is jsut to make it easy.

love

chris

Hi Paul,
“There are more realms than the physical and spiritual and each realm has many expressions of itself, but each being that is experiencing different experiences within the many aspects of the realms, are all aspects of the oneness of consciousness” – hmmm – well I certainly agree that there is a lot more than just physical and spiritual, however I see no reason to assume that they are all aspects of consciousness, it sounds as if it should be the case but given how little we know it need not be true – what makes it true?.

“You state that you are aware of past lives, that you use your understanding of past lives to help people to heal themselves of what they have brought forward” – um – well you say that – i’m not sure where I said that. I am aware of past lives, I have little tangible proof, just as there is no proof of global consciousness, but that has been my experience. As for using the awareness or past lives to help people heal themselves, as I have said – I am a simple reiki healer – I use past live stuff to heal myself.

“if you remember past lives and experiences then why did you have to learn how to speak and read and write etc, you should have already know all this when you were born?” – interesting point – of course access to past lives is normally blocked so that we can experience each life without having interference from past experiences, it is the difference between many fresh starts and one long life. We can actually remember some parts if we try, but that does not equate to either remembering all parts or skills learned in detail –would you expect that we could given that one moves from knowing all to only knowing what one knew before in the blink of an eye?

“We do not find the oneness outside of us, we find it within the fullness of self once we mange to overcome the fear of loosing self.” – a bold statement made with conviction, but there is no evidence at all to back it up – even finding oneness cannot be substantiated – or can it – is there substance to the words?

“Within the oneness, everything is known, but when we create an aspect of self and enmesh it within a form within one of the realities to experience that reality, the aspects of consciousness that we create out of self does not know anything and is created to make the experience of that reality real, so everything has to be learnt in order to survive within the that reality without pre-empting or unduly influencing the experience.” – and this is what you just asked me about past lives. The difference is that with past lives we only get a glimpse, so the picture is fragmented and partial, in your case one minute you are in the oneness and know everything, and the next nearly nothing – so the real question is whether the knowing everything is an illusion – I’m sure it seems real, just as the glimpses of past lives do, and it is easy to claim, and it sounds great, but if it is all lost when we return from the oneness then there is no evidence of it or that it is not just one big illusion. How would you back this claim up? For without some kind of evidence or back up it is worthless – is it an illusion?

“No, time exists within this reality and if this planet was uninhabited, then the planet itself would be aware of the passage of the seasons and time, although the time perceived upon this planet is different to time on any other planet within this physical reality.” – and this assumes that the planet is conscious (actually I have some sympathy with this), but there is no evidence of this at all, furthermore the planet was formed from exploded stars, and the stars from hydrogen, so was the hydrogen conscious? The universe does not need an observer to be – it can just be, the fact that when we observe wave forms or particles they can change their behaviour does not mean they need us to do so – what then allows us to think that we can direct them?

“We do not need to reconnect to the oneness, because we never left it.” I which case we should know everything – and it is clearly the case that we do not.

Much of this may or may not be correct, much of it given where we are is not provable one way or the other, but making grand claims and wishing they were true does not constitute any kind of proof.

“No we do not survive as a being when we leave this plane of reality, we create a new being suitable to our requirements with each expression.” – but of course there is evidence of a kind form the spiritualists that your statement is wrong – we have beings communicating having died and passing meaningful messages that identify them explicitly –they are the same beings that were here, and the children who recount past lives and details that they could never know otherwise certainly must have a degree of continuity, or else they are remembering some other person’s life.
However if you have more than a statement to support your theory then I am (genuinely) interested. I have no agenda here, I simply write what I see and understand, I am not attached to being separate, or being part of the oneness, I am content to understand as best I can how things are – so I am interested if there are things that are evident.
love
chris

Hi Chris

hmmm – well I certainly agree that there is a lot more than just physical and spiritual, however I see no reason to assume that they are all aspects of consciousness, it sounds as if it should be the case but given how little we know it need not be true – what makes it true?.

My personal understanding is that everything starts and finishes with a thought, for there to be a thought, requires there to be consciousness in one form or another.

“We do not find the oneness outside of us, we find it within the fullness of self once we mange to overcome the fear of loosing self.” – a bold statement made with conviction, but there is no evidence at all to back it up – even finding oneness cannot be substantiated – or can it – is there substance to the words?

No, I cannot substantiate this for you or anyone else, it is up to each person to take time to look deep within and see what they find for themselves. 🙂

The difference is that with past lives we only get a glimpse, so the picture is fragmented and partial, in your case one minute you are in the oneness and know everything, and the next nearly nothing – so the real question is whether the knowing everything is an illusion – I’m sure it seems real, just as the glimpses of past lives do, and it is easy to claim, and it sounds great, but if it is all lost when we return from the oneness then there is no evidence of it or that it is not just one big illusion. How would you back this claim up? For without some kind of evidence or back up it is worthless – is it an illusion?

All of the realities are an illusion of consciousness, an analogy would be like sitting at the computer playing a game that gets us so involved within it, that we lose site of this reality and start to perceive that the reality within the screen is real, our emotions start to interact with what is happening on the monitor etc, when we have finished playing one game, we simply load up another game and become absorbed within a different reality, with each game we have to learn how to function within it etc.

“No we do not survive as a being when we leave this plane of reality, we create a new being suitable to our requirements with each expression.” – but of course there is evidence of a kind form the spiritualists that your statement is wrong – we have beings communicating having died and passing meaningful messages that identify them explicitly –they are the same beings that were here, and the children who recount past lives and details that they could never know otherwise certainly must have a degree of continuity, or else they are remembering some other person’s life.
However if you have more than a statement to support your theory then I am (genuinely) interested. I have no agenda here, I simply write what I see and understand, I am not attached to being separate, or being part of the oneness, I am content to understand as best I can how things are – so I am interested if there are things that are evident.

No evidence, just an understanding, we can perceive and create within our realities, whatever we wish to perceive and create, we are taught to always look outward and embrace what is defined before us, but then we can also look inward and find something different to what is being portrayed. 🙂

Hi Paul,
“My personal understanding is that everything starts and finishes with a thought, for there to be a thought, requires there to be consciousness in one form or another” – well lets split this up, your understanding is based on what exactly? Is this something that has some basis of fact or is it possibly part of an illusory glimpse gained during connection to the oneness? Secondly what supporting evidence is there that a thought is needed to start and finish something (apart from the creation of god of course). We do apparently know that particles and waves alter their behaviour if we observe them, but that is a far cry from your “everything starts and finishes with a thought”. “for there to be a thought, requires there to be consciousness in one form or another” – this sounds right, I’m not sure how one would prove it but it sounds right.
This is important – for this kind of statement, albeit that it covers itself with ‘my understanding’ may be nothing more than a reflection of an illusion or a derangement – yet if it is correct, and can be shown to be then that is a significant step.

“No, I cannot substantiate this for you or anyone else, it is up to each person to take time to look deep within and see what they find for themselves” – and each may well end up convinced, but this, just as you have found carries no substantiation, just belief, and that may well be either based on what we would like to perceive, on what we have been told to perceive or an what we have been led to perceive by the illusion of the connection. This too is really important – if it is true, really true it makes a big difference – if it is an illusion then that too is important for we need to look beyond it. If we just become attached to believing it we become irrational, confusing feelings with facts, repeating things in order to make them into reality, offering non-proofs and trying to discard evidence that should not be, stalking off as if mortified by the charge rather than facing the challenges, and allowing fear of being incorrect to create unreasonable behaviour, permitting the fear of honest reflection to rule our responses.

“All of the realities are an illusion of consciousness” – and this is just words designed to sound convincing – there is no substance that there a more than one reality, and certainly none that (it) they are all illusions. This sounds grand but is actually just meaningless without some form of substance. This too is important, for if it were to be proved true it changes the whole foundation of our understanding, and yet if not it is hollow.

The game analogy is more like the pink elephant that Dazzle mentions – we know that no matter how engrossed we get it is not ‘reality’ – just as the elephant was only in the imagination.

“No evidence, just an understanding, we can perceive and create within our realities, whatever we wish to perceive and create, we are taught to always look outward and embrace what is defined before us, but then we can also look inward and find something different to what is being portrayed” again I’ll split this up – despite there being some (apparent evidence) that we do survive death as individuals something has led you to an understanding that we do not – this then is stated as fact, and yet it may just be a notion created to support an illusion. This is totally important, for if we do survive ‘intact’ then we carry the past lives and their actions along with us, if not we are unchained from them. The difference is that if we are unchained we can commit any act, no matter how hurtful or unkind and know that it will be expunged, it makes us non-responsible. This is a license to behave like a tyrant, and coupled with you ‘create anything with a thought’ the two make a worrying combination. It allows us to interfere in other’s lives in any manner we see fit with impunity – and with no respect for them whatsoever.
“we can perceive and create within our realities” – what evidence is there of any of this – we can perceive but are there multiple realities and what exactly does create mean, a painting or a world? This sounds profound, but without facts it is empty.
Haa- the wish word emerges, and this is so much at the heart of much of this, but the evidence for wishes becoming manifest is not great and can usually be explained, even by the most mild sceptic as statistical probability.
I went through this with healing, firstly with self-healing and then on others, was it just a wish on my part that I felt better, that I felt the energy flow, that I saw my energy fields? When I sorted that out I did the same on others – and I eventually gathered enough to convince myself that this was actual – it is not enough to be scientifically convincing I guess or it would have been proven by now, but I made sure that it was not just a wish on my part that what I saw was actually healing in progress. It is not a journey of self-doubt, but of confirmation.

“we are taught to always look outward and embrace what is defined before us” – I think I agree that in today’s materialistic world this is probably true, and certainly it is true that “we can also look inward and find something different to what is being portrayed”. The problem is that looking outwards provides tangible, material evidence, it does seem that the rich are better off, that possessions do provide some level of comfort, that they seldom suffer from hunger for instance, and yet there is little proof that looking inward provides provable views, or that it brings tangible benefits. The problem to some extent is that looking inwards often ignores that we should examine what we find in the same way as when we look outwards, and so what we often express having looked inwards is wishes, misformed impressions and we exalt these into ‘fact’ in an attempt to make them appear to have substance.
We have no actual way of ensuring that these are fact, that we are not prey to an illusion or that we are not just imagining it. I have probed a lot about the claim that within the ‘now’ all is known, that there is no time etc. because these ‘statements of fact’ seem more likely to be illusions created by the connections made to ‘the oneness’/’god’/whatever. That we feel we have access to everything, that we can create anything need not be a facet of our abilities and knowledge, but a carry-over from the ‘one’ that does, we may well be gathering that this is possible and assuming that we can because of the connection, or it may just be an illusion created by the connection and we are wrong. I see no evidence or support for the idea that it is correct (that is not to say that I think people are lying for I have experienced it) - I find it hard to conceive how no knowledge from ‘everything is known’ is retained, not a single scrap, and that only prior knowledge is retained and is unaffected. I have tried to gather one fact during this connection that I could not have previously known, one that I could check to ensure it was not made up, and found none. I include so far in this past life experiences, but I still hope to find something (lol).
So when people claim these things it is not necessarily that they are trying to dupe people, though they may be, but that they have not challenged what they are sensing and are being deceived into believing something which they then call knowledge or truth. However having said all that if someone wants to make claims, especially grand claims then they should be able to back them up, not with poorly formed pseudo-scientific hooey, but with well thought out and logical support, applying what is known in order to try to understand what is not, and they should be clear about what is thought and what is known, what is faith and what is fact – this is not an unreasonable premise for without that they lay themselves open to being fraudsters or worse, and that is unfair on those who do try to expand our knowledge of the spiritual/consciousness world.

love
chris

Hi Chris

“My personal understanding is that everything starts and finishes with a thought, for there to be a thought, requires there to be consciousness in one form or another” – well lets split this up, your understanding is based on what exactly? Is this something that has some basis of fact or is it possibly part of an illusory glimpse gained during connection to the oneness?

It is based upon my understanding of how we function within this reality, how we create our inner conflicts and core way of being, which shapes our existences.

Secondly what supporting evidence is there that a thought is needed to start and finish something (apart from the creation of god of course).

We cannot do anything without a thought to drive it, if our thoughts cannot get through to our bodies, then we end up in a coma or dead.

This is important – for this kind of statement, albeit that it covers itself with ‘my understanding’ may be nothing more than a reflection of an illusion or a derangement – yet if it is correct, and can be shown to be then that is a significant step.

Yes it was a significant step in my understanding, but then I was not looking in a microscope to understand physicality, I was exploring consciousness, which is a different thing all together.

“No, I cannot substantiate this for you or anyone else, it is up to each person to take time to look deep within and see what they find for themselves” – and each may well end up convinced, but this, just as you have found carries no substantiation, just belief, and that may well be either based on what we would like to perceive, on what we have been told to perceive or an what we have been led to perceive by the illusion of the connection.

Actually it came from observations, but not the type that you can put under the microscope, so it cannot be substantiated that way, much the same as your understanding of past lives cannot be put under the microscope and proved.

When we repeatedly see life problems that are connected to underlying thought patterns and beliefs, then we can call it coincidence, fate or karma and tell them to get on with it or we can take note and learn what is forming it and how to transform it, but how can we substantiate a thought?

“All of the realities are an illusion of consciousness” – and this is just words designed to sound convincing – there is no substance that there a more than one reality, and certainly none that (it) they are all illusions. This sounds grand but is actually just meaningless without some form of substance. This too is important, for if it were to be proved true it changes the whole foundation of our understanding, and yet if not it is hollow.

Where is the substance of a spiritual reality, where is the substance of a past or future life, where is the substance of an invisible healing flow which travels thought the world and heals someone on the other side of it.

You know that there is no solid matter within this universe, everything is constantly in flux and motion, but here we are walking upon this planet, which gives us a good illusion of solid matter.

“No evidence, just an understanding, we can perceive and create within our realities, whatever we wish to perceive and create, we are taught to always look outward and embrace what is defined before us, but then we can also look inward and find something different to what is being portrayed” again I’ll split this up – despite there being some (apparent evidence) that we do survive death as individuals something has led you to an understanding that we do not – this then is stated as fact, and yet it may just be a notion created to support an illusion.

Actually there is no evidence that we survive when we die, that is a belief held by some which cannot be proved, for some it is a future hope or fear, for others it is a good money spinner.

The difference is that if we are unchained we can commit any act, no matter how hurtful or unkind and know that it will be expunged, it makes us non-responsible. This is a license to behave like a tyrant, and coupled with you ‘create anything with a thought’ the two make a worrying combination. It allows us to interfere in other’s lives in any manner we see fit with impunity – and with no respect for them whatsoever.

Yes, that is a personal choice, everyone is capable of doing anything that they can conceive, the wars have taught us that all to well, this is down to everyone choosing to become responsible for their own thought patterns and beliefs, as well as the manifestations which come from them, or disowning their own thought patterns and beliefs and blaming something or someone else for their personal actions.

“we can perceive and create within our realities” – what evidence is there of any of this – we can perceive but are there multiple realities and what exactly does create mean, a painting or a world? This sounds profound, but without facts it is empty.

You perceive spirits and perceive that you talk to them and they answer you, this is something which you create within your consciousness and embrace as reality, so for you it becomes real and a part of your reality, other people perceive demons or gods and create demons and gods within their realities, other people perceive healing or voodoo and that becomes a part of their reality, some people perceive wealth and create wealth whilst other people perceive poverty and create poverty, some people perceive happiness and create happiness whist other people perceive suffering and create suffering, some people perceive fear and create a reality of fear whist other people walk through life without a care in the world, some people perceive boundaries and restrictions and create them and live within them, whilst other people embrace the freedom to create what they can perceive.

“we are taught to always look outward and embrace what is defined before us” – I think I agree that in today’s materialistic world this is probably true, and certainly it is true that “we can also look inward and find something different to what is being portrayed”. The problem is that looking outwards provides tangible, material evidence, it does seem that the rich are better off, that possessions do provide some level of comfort, that they seldom suffer from hunger for instance, and yet there is little proof that looking inward provides provable views, or that it brings tangible benefits

At school we are taught things which we often do not understand and if we ask why, then we are often told that that is the way that it is, that we do not need to understand it we just need to accept it, it works for some, it did not work for me.

It is pointless looking within unless we are open to perceiving beyond our current understanding, otherwise we can only perceive within the remit of the boundary's and restrictions that we have already created and placed upon ourselves.

We have no actual way of ensuring that these are fact, that we are not prey to an illusion or that we are not just imagining it. I have probed a lot about the claim that within the ‘now’ all is known, that there is no time etc. because these ‘statements of fact’ seem more likely to be illusions created by the connections made to ‘the oneness’/’god’/whatever.

That we feel we have access to everything, that we can create anything need not be a facet of our abilities and knowledge, but a carry-over from the ‘one’ that does, we may well be gathering that this is possible and assuming that we can because of the connection, or it may just be an illusion created by the connection and we are wrong.

No you are taking that out of context, we have not got enough consciousness contained within our matrix of consciousness that we utilise within this physical reality to contain all of the information within the oneness, we can get a glimpse and form a conceptual understanding of the oneness, but that is not the same as knowing everything about the past and future and all of what is going on within all of the beings which are within them.

It often takes us all of our focus just to try and keep track of everything which is happening within self, never mind multiplying that by several billion human beings and then multiply that by all of the beings within the other realities and then go beyond them and enter the unbound consciousness of the oneness, now if you can perceive all of that at the same time and understand everything that all of the beings are thinking and processing at the same moment, then you will be back in your original state of being within the oneness and will know everything.

The oneness is a concept, we have nothing within self that can contain it, we have a knowing of oneness but we are created as separate conscious beings within this reality, I accept the oneness of consciousness that I perceive within the fullness of self and I accept that everyone is one within consciousness through the oneness and I use that understanding to perform my healing work with consciousness, but that is a far cry from being the oneness upon this planet and knowing everything, that would be like attempting to process all of the information contained within all of the computers of the world simultaneously through a hand held calculator, it is simply not possible, our matrix of consciousness (aura) would have to be bigger than the universe.

So when people claim these things it is not necessarily that they are trying to dupe people, though they may be, but that they have not challenged what they are sensing and are being deceived into believing something which they then call knowledge or truth.

It might also simply be that they have found a different way that works for them and are sharing what works for them, in the hope that others will also find that it helps them to gain a new understanding of self which they can use within their own existence. 🙂

Hi Paul,
“It is based upon my understanding of how we function within this reality, how we create our inner conflicts and core way of being, which shapes our existences.” – this is the problem, it is clear that this is what you think, but that does not explain or clarify the contents. Unless one can somehow do this then the word ‘understand’ is actually being misused, it should probably be ‘assume’, or ‘suppose’, for without the clarification, the explanation there can be no understanding, just belief or faith.
If you do have this clarification then I am interested. (note that I do not suggest you are necessarily wrong, your thoughts may well be right, it is just that there is no supporting commentary)

“We cannot do anything without a thought to drive it, if our thoughts cannot get through to our bodies, then we end up in a coma or dead” – but a plant does not think in order to turn sunlight into sugar, and water does not think when it dissolves a salt crystal. If we place our hand on something hot an autonomous reaction, that is not part of our brain, not a thought, just a switch, makes our hand move away. Even in a coma we can have thoughts, and of course I think that as spirits (when we are dead) we have thoughts, so it is just not that clear. To make a statement like this suggests 100% certainty – so where is the backing for that certainty?

“Yes it was a significant step in my understanding” – but if you cannot explain, then you do not fully understand, it is about perception of concept, belief or faith. If you understand then you can do more than make statements, you can comprehend the reasons and workings. If not then there is no real understanding – merely conviction.
You see I know that a cell burns sugars and converts them into energy, but I do not understand how (poor example but it gives a flavour of what I am trying to say)

“Actually it came from observations, ... When we repeatedly see life problems that are connected to underlying thought patterns and beliefs” – yes – these can be valid, they provide some evidence that there is a connection at least, they do not necessarily provide understanding, and there is always scope for doubt (“much the same as your understanding of past lives cannot be put under the microscope and proved” – as you say).

“Where is the substance of a spiritual reality, where is the substance of a past or future life” – this is what the spiritualists deal with, proof, the clairvoyant services concentrate on it.
“Actually there is no evidence that we survive when we die” – this too has evidence provided by the spiritualists – one can choose to discard this kind of evidence but that makes it into one’s belief structure rather than a rational process. The evidence is good evidence (often mixed with a lot of muddy uncertain stuff).

“where is the substance of an invisible healing flow which travels thought the world and heals someone on the other side of it.” – this is more difficult to prove, and so far definite proof is still lacking – I believe it can, that is my belief, but I cannot really explain it or provide substance, it could all be placeboic.

“You know that there is no solid matter within this universe, everything is constantly in flux and motion, but here we are walking upon this planet, which gives us a good illusion of solid matter” – well nearly true, but you are right, what we call solid is actually just electrical repelling forces as much as anything. This is why we have to question all the time, for assuming that we know something is dangerous – it could be an illusion – this has been my message all along.

“for others it is a good money spinner” – there are plenty of people around who aim to make money from the gullible and the vulnerable – I have already spoken of this – the spiritual world has more than its share.

“is down to everyone choosing to become responsible for their own thought patterns and beliefs, as well as the manifestations which come from them, or disowning their own thought patterns and beliefs and blaming something or someone else for their personal actions.” – this has nothing to do whether we are dissolved or not. If we are dissolved after death then what possible use has our life been, and what reason is there for us to (say) heal others? All this means is that we have choice, free will, and we do not always choose what may be seen as the best course.

“You perceive spirits and perceive that you talk to them and they answer you, this is something which you create within your consciousness and embrace as reality, so for you it becomes real and a part of your reality” – not quite true, but I get the meaning, and yes – it is possible that this is all an illusion, I am aware and I beware, I question and test, and I have managed to find things that I could not have known in any other way. It is those who live by illusion and never test it that are blind and have to depend upon blind faith and conviction.

You use the word create a lot, but there is no evidence that we ‘create’ anything, the challenge has been made, create an orange – if you can create poverty or wealth or all the other things, really create then an orange should be easy. Those born into poverty have no choice but to survive as best they can, they did not create it. We can alter (create) a mindset that changes how we behave, that is a different matter, but no matter how much many of the world’s population chose to create wealth, they will only ever be poor.

“we have not got enough consciousness contained within our matrix of consciousness that we utilise within this physical reality to contain all of the information within the oneness” – another bold statement, and made with conviction – and nothing, absolutely nothing to support it, a wish, nothing more, dressed up in religious garb.

“we can get a glimpse and form a conceptual understanding of the oneness” – but I thought that you said everything is known “Within the oneness, everything is known”, is this just a glimpse or not??, for if it is then it is an illusion of knowing all, it is an illusion then how much more can be trusted as valid? It is no good pointing at me and saying this is taken out of context, it was a clear statement, made with conviction – if it is not right all is cast into doubt.

“our matrix of consciousness (aura) would have to be bigger than the universe.” – sigh, would it then? Need I even frame the next question?

“It might also simply be that they have found a different way that works for them and are sharing what works for them” – yes – much simpler – yet if one is to sell something (not necessarily for money) there has to be more than just ‘it works’, for this is how placebos can be effective, pyramid schemes operate, and how bogus faith healers work, on the basis of trust alone. It is the understanding and the explanation that make the honest much more than just a ‘trust me’ scheme – and the trust arises from proper explanations, not bold words the likes of which a ‘preacher’ would emit while thumping the lectern.

I get a little confused about what each of you say about the ‘oneness’, but in each case, if it is the same oneness, then the experiences should be broadly similar, and if they are not then it is not consistent, and that alone provides doubt. When I describe what I see there are similarities and differences, and I’m told I am wrong, so for it to have validity the ‘group view’ should hold up. This theme of everything is known, no time always surfaces, so to then say that this is not the case comes as a surprise. “we can get a glimpse and form a conceptual understanding of the oneness” – and in different words that is sort of what I have been trying to describe. If that is the case though then the ‘all is known’ is incorrect, it is really an illusion, and so although the connection seems real, all the other aspects must be in doubt. Is there time, is it limitless, is it even all, everything, are there truly no boundaries and barriers? “we have a knowing of oneness” – yes – of the existence of it, but knowing of the existence of something does not impart knowledge (as you suggest i think though this is my translation) of its nature. Part of the problem is that when something very small observes something very big (or vice versa) the difference in scale renders much unintelligible.

love
chris

Hi Chris

“It is based upon my understanding of how we function within this reality, how we create our inner conflicts and core way of being, which shapes our existences.”

– this is the problem, it is clear that this is what you think, but that does not explain or clarify the contents. Unless one can somehow do this then the word ‘understand’ is actually being misused, it should probably be ‘assume’, or ‘suppose’, for without the clarification, the explanation there can be no understanding, just belief or faith.
If you do have this clarification then I am interested. (note that I do not suggest you are necessarily wrong, your thoughts may well be right, it is just that there is no supporting commentary)

No, my understanding is quite good on this subject, but it takes me nearly a day to impart my understanding to someone else when healing them and considerably longer to impart it to someone who wishes to use it the way that I do. It requires me to connect with someone and maintain the focus of that connection, which is where the oneness of consciousness comes into the equation, it requires a shift within consciousness and instant clarifications through face to face communication and a considerable amount of focus on my side to be able to perceive the way that they are receiving what I am giving them within their aspects of consciousness.

My understanding is not is a faith or a belief as it does not require either in order for it to function, I can't give you what I have within the limitations of an on line forum, for if it was just head knowledge which is what you are asking for, I could just write a book and save myself a lot of hard work.

“We cannot do anything without a thought to drive it, if our thoughts cannot get through to our bodies, then we end up in a coma or dead”

– but a plant does not think in order to turn sunlight into sugar, and water does not think when it dissolves a salt crystal. If we place our hand on something hot an autonomous reaction, that is not part of our brain, not a thought, just a switch, makes our hand move away. Even in a coma we can have thoughts, and of course I think that as spirits (when we are dead) we have thoughts, so it is just not that clear. To make a statement like this suggests 100% certainty – so where is the backing for that certainty?

And we do not think about digesting food either, as that is an automatic function of the body which is driven by the central processor of the body which is the brain, but plants and water both have consciousness as well as their automatic processes, they just don't have a brain because they are a simpler form of life to a human being.

Yes, we are still conscious within a coma, thought the thoughts that we are having within our matrix of consciousness are not getting through to the brain or the brain has closed itself down to help the body survive, so it can't do anything about them.

“Yes it was a significant step in my understanding”

– but if you cannot explain, then you do not fully understand, it is about perception of concept, belief or faith. If you understand then you can do more than make statements, you can comprehend the reasons and workings. If not then there is no real understanding – merely conviction. You see I know that a cell burns sugars and converts them into energy, but I do not understand how (poor example but it gives a flavour of what I am trying to say)

I do comprehend and I do a lot more than make statements, please see the first response to this post.

“is down to everyone choosing to become responsible for their own thought patterns and beliefs, as well as the manifestations which come from them, or disowning their own thought patterns and beliefs and blaming something or someone else for their personal actions.”

– this has nothing to do whether we are dissolved or not. If we are dissolved after death then what possible use has our life been, and what reason is there for us to (say) heal others? All this means is that we have choice, free will, and we do not always choose what may be seen as the best course.

No you where making the point that if we carry our life's on from one life to another, then that process and understanding will make us responsible, but responsibility comes from self, when we are true to self, then we make choices which we are happy with, it is all down to personal choices.

Life is simply an ongoing experience, nothing more or less, we choose to come here to embrace a physical experience and all that the experience of a physical existence upon this planet contains within it, it is the experience that we come for, it is as simple as that.

You use the word create a lot, but there is no evidence that we ‘create’ anything, the challenge has been made, create an orange – if you can create poverty or wealth or all the other things, really create then an orange should be easy. Those born into poverty have no choice but to survive as best they can, they did not create it. We can alter (create) a mindset that changes how we behave, that is a different matter, but no matter how much many of the world’s population chose to create wealth, they will only ever be poor.

As I said in my last post to you, we do not contain the consciousness of the oneness or this would in deed be possible, but manifesting an orange out of thin air is completely different to choosing and changing a life path, that is something which is within our remit as human beings, we are all born into different life experiences, they can be changed, even people who are born into captive slavery can escape and build a new life for themselves, part of the new life could be creating something which will enable them to have a great abundance of money, so you can't justify making the restrictive statement that pore people will always be pore, as life has show this to be false in many cases.

“we have not got enough consciousness contained within our matrix of consciousness that we utilise within this physical reality to contain all of the information within the oneness”

– another bold statement, and made with conviction – and nothing, absolutely nothing to support it, a wish, nothing more, dressed up in religious garb.

If you wish to prove it wrong, then I would ask you to create an orange out of thin air, for if you contain all of the information and understanding that is held within the oneness of consciousness then you would not only understand how to do this, you could do it and whatever other task you set your consciousness to performing would happen.

“we have not got enough consciousness contained within our matrix of consciousness that we utilise within this physical reality to contain all of the information within the oneness”

– another bold statement, and made with conviction – and nothing, absolutely nothing to support it, a wish, nothing more, dressed up in religious garb.

Create the orange then, or tell me what everyone in the world is thinking at this moment in time, or tell me what is going to happen tomorrow at 10am? Then I will accept that you have the understanding and the capacity of the oneness of consciousness contained within your matrix of consciousness!

“It might also simply be that they have found a different way that works for them and are sharing what works for them”

– yes – much simpler – yet if one is to sell something (not necessarily for money) there has to be more than just ‘it works’, for this is how placebos can be effective, pyramid schemes operate, and how bogus faith healers work, on the basis of trust alone. It is the understanding and the explanation that make the honest much more than just a ‘trust me’ scheme – and the trust arises from proper explanations, not bold words the likes of which a ‘preacher’ would emit while thumping the lectern.

There is more than one way of receiving information, your way it through words and arguments, my way is different, yes I give words of understanding to the thinking aspect of peoples consciousness, which they are free to accept or reject, but that is just the tip of the iceberg to what is given and it can do little on its own, otherwise you would not still be putting up questions and arguments, you would now understand in a different way, you would contain something which had created a shift within consciousness that allows a knowing rather than an understanding, as I said at the beginning of this post, a forum or a book will give you head knowledge, what I have is not head knowledge but a knowing which is hard to put into words.

I get a little confused about what each of you say about the ‘oneness’, but in each case, if it is the same oneness, then the experiences should be broadly similar, and if they are not then it is not consistent, and that alone provides doubt. When I describe what I see there are similarities and differences, and I’m told I am wrong, so for it to have validity the ‘group view’ should hold up.

As I said, we form a conceptual understanding of the oneness and in some measure that understanding allows us to understand how it all interacts within our reality, but we have not got the capacity within our matrix of consciousness to contain it, so I attempt to rationalise my knowing and someone else tries to rationalise or verbalise their knowing, and there will be differences, depending on where we our within our understandings and what we are looking for, although within the oneness all is one, here upon this planet we are all experiencing separateness and think independently of each other, so out of our independent thinking we are free to chose the way that we comprehend things, so yes there will be differences in what we comprehend.

But there will be some basics which are the same though they might be expressed differently, it is unbound, it is completely non-judgemental and impartial with its dealings with everyone and all is one within the oneness of consciousness.

This theme of everything is known, no time always surfaces, so to then say that this is not the case comes as a surprise. “we can get a glimpse and form a conceptual understanding of the oneness” – and in different words that is sort of what I have been trying to describe. If that is the case though then the ‘all is known’ is incorrect, it is really an illusion, and so although the connection seems real, all the other aspects must be in doubt. Is there time, is it limitless, is it even all, everything, are there truly no boundaries and barriers? “we have a knowing of oneness” – yes – of the existence of it, but knowing of the existence of something does not impart knowledge (as you suggest i think though this is my translation) of its nature. Part of the problem is that when something very small observes something very big (or vice versa) the difference in scale renders much unintelligible.

Again there is a difference between a knowing and what we call head knowledge, we can have one without the other, though with time they might come together, if you attempt to place the oneness into this reality as we experience it, it does not work because we are currently experiencing and bound up within the limitations of a physical reality that functions within a time frame, but that does not stop us from understanding the oneness or working with it to create direction and focus within our lives.

Hi Paul,
“No, my understanding is quite good on this subject, but it takes me nearly a day to impart my understanding to someone else” – I see what you are saying but there is a difference between understanding, which implies knowledge about something, and showing someone something. Take the instance of a car, one can show someone how to drive but that does not mean they understand how the car works. I would put much of my ‘understanding’ of spirits in the same case, I think I know how it all works, but i do not actually understand much of it. Understanding without facts and without substance becomes faith, it requires belief, it is not knowledge.
People ‘knew’ that the earth was flat, they imparted that ‘knowledge’ and they lived with it as if it was true, but that did not make it fact. Getting someone to believe something, or perhaps conceptualise something does not constitute understanding, getting someone to believe something for which there is no proof or substance other than shared belief does not constitute evidence. This is just as true of reiki as it is of your process, and in each case the fact that healing occurs does not support the promise, for it may just be internal healing sparked off by the suggestion, in other words placeboic. This is one of the reasons i look so hard for evidence, not just of outcome, though that is important, but of process. One of the worst things one can do though is to repeat the unprovable concepts as if they are true in the hope that they will become so – in reiki for instance it is that the energy follows intent, with your system there are other facets that are entirely unprovable.

“plants and water both have consciousness” – and I will keep picking up on this kind of thing, here is a statement made as if it is factual, and yet there is no basis to make this claim. It matters not whether I agree with it or not, it is just a baseless claim made to sound good. The same is true of “they are a simpler form of life to a human being” – for although plants are life forms, there is no evidence that water is – any system that depends upon this kind of supporting ‘evidence’ is just floundering – this is not based on ‘understanding’.

“Yes, we are still conscious within a coma, thought the thoughts that we are having within our matrix of consciousness are not getting through to the brain or the brain has closed itself down to help the body survive, so it can't do anything about them” – I kind of know what you mean, though of course people can be in a coma and still have measurable brain function.

“I do comprehend and I do a lot more than make statements” – comprehension is about understanding, not about knowing – if you cannot explain something, only demonstrate it then that does not imply understanding. This all sounds pedantic, but it is important, especially in the world of energy and consciousness, for if we are to move forward we need more understanding, not just knowing.

1. “but responsibility comes from self, when we are true to self” – I’m not sure how these are linked, “The state or fact of having a duty to deal with something, The state or fact of being accountable or to blame for something” has nothing to do with being true to oneself (directly).

“Life is simply an ongoing experience, nothing more or less, we choose to come here to embrace a physical experience and all that the experience of a physical existence upon this planet contains within it, it is the experience that we come for, it is as simple as that.” – but this does nothing to demonstrate whether we are dissolved after death or whether we are not.

“manifesting an orange out of thin air is completely different to choosing and changing a life path” – agreed, and within those bounds we can create, however not everyone has the option to, there are those who cannot create wealth from where they are born into, this is a hard fact of this planet. Where the opportunities are possible though I agree with you.
“that pore people will always be pore, as life has show this to be false in many cases” – I agree, but the opportunity is not available to all poor people, some exceptions manage it, and it can be done I agree.

“If you wish to prove it wrong” – I have no wish to do so, but the fact remains that the statement is made as if it is evident, as if it is true, and in actuality there is nothing at all to support it, it is a wish at best and designed to confuse at worst.
You claimed “we have not got enough consciousness contained within our matrix of consciousness that we utilise within this physical reality to contain all of the information within the oneness” and I asked for the evidence, it is no use asking me to create an orange instead, if there is evidence, if this is not designed simply to sound grand or confuse then what evidence is there of it? If one makes these statements then there is some responsibility to be able to back them up, or else all else that you say is cast into the same doubt and can appear as simply wishes. It does not matter whether I agree with you or not, you made the statement so you should be able to defend it with some facts of substance.

“yes I give words of understanding to the thinking aspect of peoples consciousness” – if there are words then they are able to be conveyed by conversation, yet you say you cannot write them down.

“Again there is a difference between a knowing and what we call head knowledge” – and this I see, for we each describe things differently, and yet when i describe it I am told I am wrong, now as it seems, you describe it as not ‘knowing everything’ while others do not it begins to sound far more like what I have seen. I’ll ask again then, if what we see is different, if what we see cannot be described by us as the same, then what is to say that what we do see is not an illusion. Only when we dissect it and find out what is not an illusion can this be determined, but in the meantime it is put across a fact, truth and everything. This is just wishes and they are based upon very shifting ground, yet constantly described as fact. If these perceived ideas do not match, then how much of this is fact?
love
chris

Hi Chris

“No, my understanding is quite good on this subject, but it takes me nearly a day to impart my understanding to someone else”

– I see what you are saying but there is a difference between understanding, which implies knowledge about something, and showing someone something. Take the instance of a car, one can show someone how to drive but that does not mean they understand how the car works. I would put much of my ‘understanding’ of spirits in the same case, I think I know how it all works, but i do not actually understand much of it. Understanding without facts and without substance becomes faith, it requires belief, it is not knowledge.

I think that words are getting in the way again, the understanding that they receive, comes more through realisation, which comes through a shift within consciousness. It is their perceptions of "what is" which changes from one state into another state. We are working towards creating a different way of being, rather than an understanding.

A car would be a different thing altogether as that is relatively easy to explain. It is after all something which has not only been created, but it is something that you can take to pieces and reassembled with tools. But again the understanding of how a car works can come from a book or the internet, but until you have taken a car to pieces and overhauled it and put it back together and made it work properly, then the understanding is not complete.

I am not dealing with physical things which can be placed under the microscope, I am dealing with consciousness and people's aspects of being. Yes I transform people's underlying thought patterns and beliefs within consciousness, not because I wish it could be done, but because I have stretched my understanding to embrace a different concept, a concept of consciousness. I have also taken the time and put in the effort to find out how to transform it and work with it.

If I was the only person who could do it, then you could say that I was working with a belief, but I can also empower others to do it. So no, it is not a belief or wishful thinking, it is something which I can teach to anyone who is open to learn it, they just need the right tools, combined with a shift within consciousness and the correct instructions in order to work as a transformational healer who work through and within consciousness.

“plants and water both have consciousness”

– and I will keep picking up on this kind of thing, here is a statement made as if it is factual, and yet there is no basis to make this claim. It matters not whether I agree with it or not, it is just a baseless claim made to sound good. The same is true of “they are a simpler form of life to a human being” – for although plants are life forms, there is no evidence that water is – any system that depends upon this kind of supporting ‘evidence’ is just floundering – this is not based on ‘understanding’.

I am sure that if you go and look for the evidence to establish that plants and water have consciousness, then there is evidence for you to find. It has been established within the scientific community for quite a while, just because all of science is not happy with the concept of consciousness, does not mean that all scientists are not open to the possibilities.

There is evidence all over the internet of water changing its properties just by someone creating a state of being whilst holding a container of it. If the water within the container is split into two and one container taken to the other side of the world, then as one half of the container of water is transformed within consciousness, the other half of the container of water transforms at the other side of the world instantly transforming to match it. There have also been experiments on plants, which have established that they have consciousness and they are aware of what is happening around them and how if within their vicinity, when one plant is attacked all of the near by plants react to what is happening. Whenever the person who attacked the plant came back into the room, every plant within the room reacted to the person until they left the room.

“I do comprehend and I do a lot more than make statements”

– comprehension is about understanding, not about knowing – if you cannot explain something, only demonstrate it then that does not imply understanding. This all sounds pedantic, but it is important, especially in the world of energy and consciousness, for if we are to move forward we need more understanding, not just knowing.

I believe that I have put up more information within the different threads of this forum than what is required for someone to form a conceptual understanding of what I do, yes, there is more information available to those who choose to learn how to do it for themselves as well as the tools and empowerments that make this form of transformational healing within and through consciousness possible.

The fact that I teach people to heal and transform from within the fullness of self, should tell you that I know how to do this, otherwise I could not teach anyone else to do it, there is no getting out of the way with this form of healing, if the healer does not do it, then it does not get done, in order to do it, you need to understand how to perform it, guessing and wishful thinking will not do it, you need to know how to do it. 😉

The problem is Chris, that we have completely different understandings of life. You say that people are ruled by their circumstances, fate and karma, that past life events and events from this life force them onto a path, that people are locked within boundaries and have no choice, that people need to be judgemental and apply blame, that they are being controlled by things outside of them.

Now although I understand that whilst they choose to embrace these concepts that their realities will revolve around them, but I also understand that they can choose to change, I work to transform and set them free from their self imposed boundaries.

We will never agree on these things as they are the reverse of each other and they create completely different things within the people that we give them to.

Hi Paul,
Words often get in the way. Creating a different way of being sounds fine, but that does not mean that it should remain unexplained, and that it is unexplainable. So long as it is just allowed to be like that it is ‘supernatural’ (in the proper definition). The fact that it is not physical makes no difference, we explain lots of things that are not physical from mass psychology to placebo.

“I am sure that if you go and look for the evidence to establish that plants and water have consciousness, then there is evidence for you to find. It has been established within the scientific community for quite a while” – well if you are sure then that reduces it to just to faith, and if it has been established then it should be available – yet I see no evidence that water has consciousness, or even plants that are at least alive (by the normal definition). What kind of a systems says that it is sure there must be evidence somewhere so it is ok to claim it as fact? If there is some evidence then I am interested – or else it just seems to me that these kind of statements are just wishes that have no support. I am aware that some think we can effect water and the way it freezes, but that is a long way from jumping to the conclusion that water has consciousness.
In terms of plants they are aware of their environment, and do change in response to it, and chemical messages can be exchanged in response to predators, but that does not provide any evidence that they have consciousness, any more than a computer can be ‘aware’ of its environment and change what it is doing in response to the changes. This is not evidence, it is hopeful supposition.
A conceptual understanding amounts only to an outline, there is that available, but that does not mean it is understood, this is words again, but there is a big difference. You make the jump and assume that this is an understanding of how it all works when it is just an outline.

“The fact that I teach people to heal and transform from within the fullness of self, should tell you that I know how to do this” – you have claimed this, and I have no evidence that it is incorrect, however knowing how to do something does not provide understanding. This is the point I am trying to make, it is the4 same for me with reiki.

I too believe that people can change, and yes, we do disagree about a lot of things, but the biggest is that I try not to depend on unexplained things, for they are just faith based or based on pseudoscience, these are not helpful other than to initiate the placebo effects that we all are subject to.
love
chris

Hi Chris

Words often get in the way. Creating a different way of being sounds fine, but that does not mean that it should remain unexplained, and that it is unexplainable. So long as it is just allowed to be like that it is ‘supernatural’ (in the proper definition). The fact that it is not physical makes no difference, we explain lots of things that are not physical from mass psychology to placebo.

Sorry, I did not know that you did not understand that we have an underlying core way of being, that is separate from our everyday thinking consciousness.

We use reason and talking to help people to gain understanding within their thinking aspect of consciousness, much the same as we would teach someone to change the spark plugs within an engine, but that will not transform their core way of being, for that we need to utilise our other aspects of consciousness, to mesh both sets of consciousness within the oneness so that they can interact non verbally with their consciousness and create a shift within those aspects of consciousness where the problems are being constantly created.

“I am sure that if you go and look for the evidence to establish that plants and water have consciousness, then there is evidence for you to find. It has been established within the scientific community for quite a while”

– well if you are sure then that reduces it to just to faith, and if it has been established then it should be available – yet I see no evidence that water has consciousness, or even plants that are at least alive (by the normal definition).

No, it is not a faith, that is a belief in something with no substance, these things have been researched within the laboratory, but in order to find the information, you might find it helpful to put your preconceived ideas on the back boiler and search the internet with an open mind.

“The fact that I teach people to heal and transform from within the fullness of self, should tell you that I know how to do this”

– you have claimed this, and I have no evidence that it is incorrect, however knowing how to do something does not provide understanding. This is the point I am trying to make, it is the4 same for me with reiki.

I would be a little foolish to offer to teach someone something that I was not capable of teaching them, much the same as I would be foolish to offer to do things for people if I could not do what I said I did, unfortunately your thoughts on what I do being the same as what you do with Reiki, are not valid.

With Reiki you are doing something that someone else has created out of their understanding for you, if you teach it, then you are using their understanding to teach their modality to someone else, but with me and the Gaia-Now modality, then the modality, the understanding which goes into the practical application and teaching of the modality, comes from me, the whole thing is formed around my conceptual understanding of healing and consciousness, I can't go and ask someone else for the answers, for they have to come from within the fullness of myself.

I too believe that people can change, and yes, we do disagree about a lot of things, but the biggest is that I try not to depend on unexplained things, for they are just faith based or based on pseudoscience, these are not helpful other than to initiate the placebo effects that we all are subject to.

In order for placebo to take over something, then that has to be created by the individual who is receiving whatever they are receiving, for that to happen, they would have to understand the non communicated information that is being given to them, what it was transforming and what effects the transformations will create, if they do not understand what is being transformed, then how are they going to create a placebo effect to create it?

The reality is Chris, that the people who choose to learn how to perform the Gaia-Now transformational healing and personal development modality understand how to do it. Since this is something which works in reverse to your current understanding, then whether you understand it or not is immaterial.;)